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INTEREST: Petition Gets 17,000 Signatures to Support Love Live! Sunshine's Chika as Oranges Ambassad




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sirdano1



Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 175
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:24 pm Reply with quote
Just redraw the art, it's not hard.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 4916
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:26 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
"There is always something that people will think is socially unpleasant, and they have the freedom to state that it makes them uncomfortable if that's how they feel, but isn't it wrong to try to use that ability to remove it?" The petition reads, "If it's something where not speaking out might threaten your life or the life of others, then you should raise your voice immediately. But this is a case where 'the illustration is inappropriate' and it doesn't cause harm to someone's life or livelihood so isn't pushing to remove it overkill?"


This is such a bad mindset lol. If we take it to a higher extreme, should people not be allowed ask for it to be removed? I think the Chika image was pretty tame but the mindset of "asking for it to be removed is wrong" is a really bad take. You should ALWAYS be allowed to ask for something to be removed. The real problem lies with those that actually removed it, not with those that merely raised questions about whether it should be.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4411
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:01 pm Reply with quote
One person's trash is another person's gold mine.

Just because some people complain, doesn't mean it reflects the will of the majority.

So I think it is a good call to show support for the art. That way the sponsors can see more people like it, than just what the complainers are yelling about.

That said, if the artist wanted to go the fan service route this way, he should have used a different type of skirt, as the image looked most unnatural. While, yes, a lot of clothing fan service images disregard reality, this particular image looked obviously unnatural. It is almost like someone had some kind of penetrating x-ray googles on and was looking at that area.
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omiya



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1584
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:32 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
One person's trash is another person's gold mine.


That's Toi Gold Mine museum, about 45 km by road (close to 2 hours by bus) from Numazu.

More seriously, if the concern is what sort of picture is displayed in public, then there should be alternatives to simply removing a picture that some consider inappropriate.
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Changeman



Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:51 pm Reply with quote
So was the collaboration commercially successful?

The case with Uzaki-chan shows that you just have to resist criticism and nothing really happens. Did they keep the poster and even make a new collaboration and what really happened?

The amount of donated blood has increased. Manga sales have increased and the series will win an anime. Nothing changed with the fact that Red Cross continued the campaign.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:44 am Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
Quote:
"There is always something that people will think is socially unpleasant, and they have the freedom to state that it makes them uncomfortable if that's how they feel, but isn't it wrong to try to use that ability to remove it?" The petition reads, "If it's something where not speaking out might threaten your life or the life of others, then you should raise your voice immediately. But this is a case where 'the illustration is inappropriate' and it doesn't cause harm to someone's life or livelihood so isn't pushing to remove it overkill?"


This is such a bad mindset lol. If we take it to a higher extreme, should people not be allowed ask for it to be removed? I think the Chika image was pretty tame but the mindset of "asking for it to be removed is wrong" is a really bad take. You should ALWAYS be allowed to ask for something to be removed. The real problem lies with those that actually removed it, not with those that merely raised questions about whether it should be.

I would rather prefer for people to accept others' interest instead of getting fights based on taste and preference. IMO an image should be removed only in case of law infringement. You shouldn't ask for something to be removed because you find it inappropriate - everyone has a different opinion about what's appropriate after all and this is why we have a CERO, ESRB, PEGI etc. So, if a Japanese censor deemed this illustration as "normal", you can't attack a company or illustrator - you should write to a responsible public authorities that you're disagree with that legal evaluation decision instead (or ask for explanation behind this evaluation).
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 583
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:48 am Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
Quote:
"There is always something that people will think is socially unpleasant, and they have the freedom to state that it makes them uncomfortable if that's how they feel, but isn't it wrong to try to use that ability to remove it?" The petition reads, "If it's something where not speaking out might threaten your life or the life of others, then you should raise your voice immediately. But this is a case where 'the illustration is inappropriate' and it doesn't cause harm to someone's life or livelihood so isn't pushing to remove it overkill?"


This is such a bad mindset lol. If we take it to a higher extreme, should people not be allowed ask for it to be removed? I think the Chika image was pretty tame but the mindset of "asking for it to be removed is wrong" is a really bad take. You should ALWAYS be allowed to ask for something to be removed. The real problem lies with those that actually removed it, not with those that merely raised questions about whether it should be.


I actually agree with the author's petition here and I think he has a pretty good mindset. The reason I say that is really just down to mathematics: There are billions of we humans on the planet, and we all have very different backgrounds, religion, culture, nationality, and personal preferences. The idea that there exists anything on earth that does not offend someone in some way is laughable. If everybody complained about or "requested the removal" of everything which bothered them there would simply be nothing left in the world for anyone. It's really a variation of the golden rule: if you don't like people complaining about the things you like and enjoy then you should stop complaining about what other people like and enjoy. (BTW, just to be clear, that was meant to be general rhetoric, not directed at any one person).

Of course there is an exception here, and the petition's author seems to know it: if something is legitimately dangerous and is a risk to public safety then that needs to be complained about and reported. Legal issues which affect people's rights? Same thing. But a picture that you don't like? No.

There is also the matter of opportunity cost. Complaining about these things costs resources. It costs the complainer's time and energy to make posts and organize petitions. When the petition gets sent somewhere it wastes the recipient's time and effort figuring out what to do about it. Would that time and energy not be far better spent on a more pressing issue than skirt folds? It seems like such a minor thing to gripe about in the face of all the issues facing the world today.

I also think it's rather ironic that the author chose change.org to create his petition, when change.org is a hotbed of the exact sort of behavior that he is complaining about.

I don't think it should be illegal for anyone to ask for things to be removed. But I think those people doing the asking ought to take a really hard look at what they're doing before they click submit and ask themselves if this issue is really worth getting worked up about.
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VerQuality
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Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 80
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Dumb as this "controversy" has been, it's good to see that the oranges sold out, at least.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4129
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:02 pm Reply with quote
[quote="dark_bozu"]I would rather prefer for people to accept others' interest instead of getting fights based on taste and preference
Quote:


Problem is what some people have an interest in isn't the kind of thing that other people would logically and realistically accept.

Like Guro?


[quote="dark_bozu"] IMO an image should be removed only in case of law infringement. You shouldn't ask for something to be removed because you find it inappropriate


Somethings objectively are inappropriate though. Like Nazi Swastika's?


-
dark_bozu wrote:
everyone has a different opinion about what's appropriate after all and this is why we have a CERO, ESRB, PEGI etc.


The job of a ratings board is to determine if something is age appropriate to sell to a specific demographic not to determine if item should or shouldn't be sold or marketed outright.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:03 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:

Like Guro?

Somethings objectively are inappropriate though. Like Nazi Swastika's?

The job of a ratings board is to determine if something is age appropriate to sell to a specific demographic not to determine if item should or shouldn't be sold or marketed outright.

1) Guro has a 18+ age restriction, so it's fine - just don't watch/read it, if you don't like it. Speaking about ads/promotion - well, it depends on local laws, but I think in most modern countries 18+ content is restricted from demonstration in public places.

2) Dunno about Japan or USA, but I some countries Nazi Swastika is prohibited to be shown in promotion material/in public places, like street or shop.

3) The thing is, if the public authorities would deemed the image or work to be a 18+, it would be restricted in terms of sales. E.g. you can't sell 18+ porno games everywhere, like Lego games.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4129
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:39 am Reply with quote
[quote="dark_bozu"]
1) Guro has a 18+ age restriction, so it's fine - just don't watch/read it, if you don't like it.

The point was though is that they're are some weird flexes that people have that other people are simply not going to like so we can't really learn to accept people liking certain things. It's simply not in our nature and given some of the stuff people fall into liking.......


dark_bozu wrote:

2) Dunno about Japan or USA, but I some countries Nazi Swastika is prohibited to be shown in promotion material/in public places, like street or shop.


Germany is one such country.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 2098
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:10 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
The point was though is that they're are some weird flexes that people have that other people are simply not going to like so we can't really learn to accept people liking certain things. It's simply not in our nature and given some of the stuff people fall into liking.......

Banning something for the sole reason some people can't accept it is in no way acceptable. But perhaps that was your point, your statement is a bit hard to read?...
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 583
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:42 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:

The point was though is that they're are some weird flexes that people have that other people are simply not going to like so we can't really learn to accept people liking certain things. It's simply not in our nature and given some of the stuff people fall into liking.......
.


It's hard to understand what you mean here.
In my opinion we absolutely SHOULD accept that everyone has different preferences from each other and there will be people who like things that we don't like, and that's OK as long as those people aren't harming others. Personally I find Guro to be distasteful, but it doesn't bother me one bit if other people like it. Guro is fine unless people want to act it out in real life, and that sort of thing is already criminal. This is no different than lolicon, violent action movies, mystery crime novels, or shooter video games.

On the other hand, if you're saying that real human nature happens to be far from that ideal and that the real world will always have some people in it who cannot accept the fact that others enjoy things differently from them? That's a sad, but true, observation. But it's something I'd like to fight to change, not simply accept, even if that's going to be a perpetual battle.
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