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The 3DCG in Dorohedoro: Yay or Nay?


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MesousaGaby



Joined: 16 Oct 2018
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:04 pm Reply with quote
Honestly, it looks miles better than Beastars, especially when in the latter show, the non-CGI characters just look so lifeless and out of place. I don't have that issue whatsoever here since they're so sketchy looking, that I can adapt to that style.

If anything the "how they don't move" problem is more notable on Beastars to me than on here.
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Marzan



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 434
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:17 pm Reply with quote
As long time fan of the manga I was very skeptical of it being adapted. My expectations were low. I was therefore very pleased and surprised by the anime. MAPPA showed Dorohedoro a lot of love.
That said, I would love for an artistically rich seinen manga, to get an adaptation like Demon Slayer, with rich, luscious art and animation.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:28 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
You could also argue that certain genres like mecha can continue to have a place in anime because of the work of 3D animators.
If anything 3D is what has mostly killed Mecha, how many none 3D Mecha titles have you seen recently.
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Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 835
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:43 pm Reply with quote
It's much easier to ignore how the 3D characters are frequently big dopey action figures when 90 percent of the show otherwise is beautifully drawn, from the backgrounds to the incidental characters. Easier for some than others, certainly - I felt like some takes going around on just how good the 3D is were...especially generous, so seeing an article like this pop up is kind of a relief.

The use of CG here at all strikes me like it's being done as research as much as anything else: I get the feeling everyone has a suspicion that eventually, someone will finally find the magic bullet for making 3D look just about as good as 2D for the same things, and no one wants to be caught with their pants down. Or otherwise to be ready if the 2D industry suddenly gets completely supplanted regardless.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5051
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:49 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
Quote:
You could also argue that certain genres like mecha can continue to have a place in anime because of the work of 3D animators.
If anything 3D is what has mostly killed Mecha, how many none 3D Mecha titles have you seen recently.
just GRANBLEM which was amazing.


But yeah, for me 3D/CG only works well very rarely. BanG Dream 3rd Season it was great for the most part. But it was smooth there and the entire show was done that way so it didn't look out of place. Hi Score Girl I also forgot was CG because it was done fairly well. Dorohedoro and other shows the framerate is often bad and the models just look out of place way too often
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 240
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:03 pm Reply with quote
MesousaGaby wrote:
Honestly, it looks miles better than Beastars, especially when in the latter show, the non-CGI characters just look so lifeless and out of place. I don't have that issue whatsoever here since they're so sketchy looking, that I can adapt to that style.

If anything the "how they don't move" problem is more notable on Beastars to me than on here.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of either CG styles but Dorohedoro was much easier to watch than Beastars. It felt much, much less jarring and intrusive animation-wise and I felt like the CG blended in with the gorgeous backgrounds better.

MarshalBanana wrote:
If anything 3D is what has mostly killed Mecha, how many none 3D Mecha titles have you seen recently.


My hype for most mecha series plummeted when everything turned to CG. At least the non-mecha portions are still 2D, but the main selling point of the genre kind of took a hit for me. still watch them but I'm much less interested in seeing clunky 3D models as I am beautiful 2D robots clashing. It's made me appreciate the few series that still have 2D mecha all the more. However, mecha also suffers because of other reasons. Younger generations just aren't into it as much anymore. Kids especially. Almost every single recent mecha show aimed at kids has failed.

I'd also say idol shows need to be mentioned too, even though they're doing well financially. Sometimes they can look okay, like Love Live Sunshine, but then you get low budget ones like Zombieland Saga where the sequences look really jarring and out of place.
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Skerlly Fc



Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:34 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
Quote:
You could also argue that certain genres like mecha can continue to have a place in anime because of the work of 3D animators.
If anything 3D is what has mostly killed Mecha, how many none 3D Mecha titles have you seen recently.

And how many good ones at that? Darling in the Franxxx? Yeah, in an alternate reality, that is, and its 2D mecha animation and fight scenes lack any soul or impact to me. Grambelm? If it were more popular.

I don´t disagree with Kim´s opinions on the show, after all she has some good points, she seems to have some info about 3D production, and she´s a fan of the manga. In the case of Dorohedoro, or Berserk, they´re a good example of why mangas with heavily detailed, or complicated artwork, can never be replicated in 2D, but only on pure 3D. Unless you have a good production team to tackle them, which can only happen once every ten years, or when you want to adapt them into a movie, because movie studios are the only ones with money and production staff to adapt them right. But I have to say that Kim´s opinions mirror the same opinions that the anime community says about any 3D anime ever. I want to see the day when anime fans behave differently about their misconceptions and bad opinions about 3D anime and their irrational fear about 2D anime dissapearing. Almost any anime reviewer and most anime fans on the internet are screaming that "3D animation doesn´t have a place in anime", or that "anime has to be 2D, because it looks better and it´s more alive" like it´s a bad meme, making me question how many people in the anime community are well informed, or have done some deep researches about the whole process for 3D animation? How many people in the anime community are basing their opinions against 3D anime based on some good research, rather than copying the same opinions because you want to be more popular with the community because just like them, you hate 3D animation?

There are dozens and dozens of documentaries, videos and articles, online or elsewhere, talking about how many processes are involved in the creation of 3D animation. There´s similar content praising some anime series that make good use of 3D. And yet, years come and go and the anime community still regurgitates the same bad opinions about 3D animation because they want everything anime ot remain 2D till the end of time, which tells me that the anime community isn´t growing up and maturing to new things. Same things happen when comparing 2D animation in Japan and in the US. This video by youtube channel The Roundtable shows how much US animation has grown to the point where some studios are creating sakuga animations comparable to the best 2D anime, and there are dozens of examples of that. Yet I saw on a comment section a group of anime fans talking about how US animation is getting cheaper and going cheaper, as if they´re saying that US animation hasn´t evolved at all in the last decade, because they still have the "anime is better because it´s japanese" mentality so ingrained in their mind that they don´t want to open their eyes to something new. Eariler I was checking some opinions on reddit about the new 3D Ghibli movie "Aya and The Witch" and I saw some awful opinions talking as if Studio Ghibli is doing something wrong by making a 3D movie, or as if that movie becomes popular, it will doom 2D animation forever. Almost as if they don´t want Studio Ghibli trying something new. And what about when the new Ghost in The Shell came out? Some anime fans think the directors were obbligated by Netflix to do the series in 3D, when various interviews with them reveal that they love 3D and it was their dream to make it 3D, or better said, they were never obbligated.

I want to see the anime community grow up, open their minds, appreciate how 3D anime can be more beneficial and even better than 2D animation without misjudging anybody for saying it. I want the anime community to stop seeing 3D anime as some kind of curse that will doom japanese animation or 2D animation, when it´s not going to happen. It´s a shame that having good opinions about 3D anime sometimes means that you have to receive then comments about how much anime fans hate 3D but you don´t know if they truly mean it, or if they´re copying other people´s opinions to be part of the club, leading to an unhealthy anime discussion. Unless the naime community changes their mind about this subject, we´ll always see anime fans talking badly about 3D anime and never see how good it can actually be for the industry
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fantaselion



Joined: 22 Dec 2016
Posts: 332
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:36 pm Reply with quote
MesousaGaby wrote:
Honestly, it looks miles better than Beastars, especially when in the latter show, the non-CGI characters just look so lifeless and out of place. I don't have that issue whatsoever here since they're so sketchy looking, that I can adapt to that style.

If anything the "how they don't move" problem is more notable on Beastars to me than on here.


Thats a hot take if I ever heard of one.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2703
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:18 pm Reply with quote
El Hermano wrote:

MarshalBanana wrote:
If anything 3D is what has mostly killed Mecha, how many none 3D Mecha titles have you seen recently.


My hype for most mecha series plummeted when everything turned to CG. At least the non-mecha portions are still 2D, but the main selling point of the genre kind of took a hit for me. still watch them but I'm much less interested in seeing clunky 3D models as I am beautiful 2D robots clashing. It's made me appreciate the few series that still have 2D mecha all the more. However, mecha also suffers because of other reasons. Younger generations just aren't into it as much anymore. Kids especially. Almost every single recent mecha show aimed at kids has failed.

I'd also say idol shows need to be mentioned too, even though they're doing well financially. Sometimes they can look okay, like Love Live Sunshine, but then you get low budget ones like Zombieland Saga where the sequences look really jarring and out of place.


I think mecha were on their death bed even before the transfer to mostly 3D (I imagine the 3D was a response to this in an effort to lower the budget). But yeah, aside from the few non CG gundam show here and there mech show just don't look good anymore.

I remember when zombieland saga first started showing their dance sequence and people were speculating that it was done intentionally bad as a sort of parody.
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Ajc228



Joined: 29 Dec 2015
Posts: 244
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:49 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
El Hermano wrote:

MarshalBanana wrote:
If anything 3D is what has mostly killed Mecha, how many none 3D Mecha titles have you seen recently.


My hype for most mecha series plummeted when everything turned to CG. At least the non-mecha portions are still 2D, but the main selling point of the genre kind of took a hit for me. still watch them but I'm much less interested in seeing clunky 3D models as I am beautiful 2D robots clashing. It's made me appreciate the few series that still have 2D mecha all the more. However, mecha also suffers because of other reasons. Younger generations just aren't into it as much anymore. Kids especially. Almost every single recent mecha show aimed at kids has failed.

I'd also say idol shows need to be mentioned too, even though they're doing well financially. Sometimes they can look okay, like Love Live Sunshine, but then you get low budget ones like
Zombieland Saga where the sequences look really jarring and out of place.


I think mecha were on their death bed even before the transfer to mostly 3D (I imagine the 3D was a response to this in an effort to lower the budget). But yeah, aside from the few non CG gundam show here and there mech show just don't look good anymore.

I remember when zombieland saga first started showing their dance sequence and people were speculating that it was done intentionally bad as a sort of parody.

3D animation can often be more expensive. The choice to animate mech scenes in 3D,
as opposed to 2D, has more to do with practicality. Mechanical animation is a specialized skill that not as many animators can do. Sunrise has a lot of mechanical animators who work specifically for them. This is why they are one of the few studios that can still animate 2d mech anime.
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CrypticPurpose



Joined: 15 Jan 2020
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:56 pm Reply with quote
I have to completely disagree with the author: part of what made Dorohedoro look better than the average 3D series is that the characters don't move so much. Most characters in 3D series tend to have far more extraneous movements and moving parts when compared to a 2D series, and the brain immediately notices this and rejects it, because it starts to move into uncanny valley territory. It just immediately stands out. Dorohedoro avoided this (which actually sounds like a lot more work to get right), and it felt a lot more like traditional anime as a result. Yes, it was still 3D, but my brain wasn't screaming "3D!!!" with every scene. It just felt like an anime. Of course, it also helped that they really effectively made the world, and everything in it, dirty. Most 3D anime tends to have way too clean of an appearance, almost clinical, that very distinctly sets it apart. The world of Dorohedoro is seriously dirty, which would have made that style stick out even more than usual, but they successfully got around it.

Two thumbs up from me!
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gloverrandal



Joined: 20 May 2014
Posts: 396
Location: Oita
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:49 pm Reply with quote
Dorohedoro is such a long series I don't see it being completed in anime form anyway. To complain seems moot and people will be reading the manga regardless.
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Gem-Bug



Joined: 10 Nov 2018
Posts: 109
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:30 pm Reply with quote
I haven't read the manga yet, so I went into this with just the idea of the plot and world. I thought it was great! Definitely worse 3DCG animation out there, but this is still my favorite series of the year so far.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 1728
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:08 pm Reply with quote
I'd probably be on the level of 'fine' as well. I didn't think it was bad by any means, but it was definitely stiff.
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FlowerAiko



Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:58 pm Reply with quote
On a pure watchability level I think MAPPA's approach was fine, it certainly looks better than Berserk and anything Polygon Pictures has put out. But I think my issue is similar to the author's... on a creative level, what was the point of making it 3D if you were going to try your absolute best to make it mimic 2D? 3D and 2D animation have different strengths and 3D animation works best when it's playing to its strengths. HnK's fight scenes are the best example of this--the insanely dynamic camera work is what makes them so great, better than anything someone with the same budget could've done in 2D. HnK also never tries to make their characters move like 2D ones do... CG models mean you can make the characters move and react more, and that adds personality. I think MAPPA (understandably) got to caught up in the fear of CG anime and made a passable but visually uninspired mimic of 2D animation rather than a full-on 3D anime. Imagine what Dorohedoro's fight scenes could've looked like with a high-energy camera.

Personally, my measure for anime is whether or not I'd suggest it alongside or over the source material, and for Dorohedoro I absolutely would not. That alone gives the anime nothing more than a meh from me.
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