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tintor2
Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1826
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 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:32 pm
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I bet it might be the famous scene where the author himself doubted a lot of times about writing it or not since it could betray the series' message or readers. The OVAs also skipped it. I'm going to write the biggest spoiler so tagging this Enishi kills Kaoru but it later turns out to be a doll.
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whiskeyii
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2245
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:19 pm
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To be fair, I don’t think the idea behind that spoiler was a bad one, just that the execution of it was pretty contrived, even for a series that basically has supernatural swordsmanship. I would definitely not be opposed to trying to find a cleverer way to get to the overall same conclusion. I’m not a fan of the series ending as a tragedy, as I think that in and of itself would also be something of a thematic betrayal.
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tintor2
Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1826
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:23 pm
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| whiskeyii wrote: | | To be fair, I don’t think the idea behind that spoiler was a bad one, just that the execution of it was pretty contrived, even for a series that basically has supernatural swordsmanship. I would definitely not be opposed to trying to find a cleverer way to get to the overall same conclusion. I’m not a fan of the series ending as a tragedy, as I think that in and of itself would also be something of a thematic betrayal. |
In volume 24 he kinda explains that he was worried about the demography. During the Kyoto arc, the author commented that he feared the narrative became increasingly darker so he basically created Misao to act as a comic relief to balance Kenshin's lone path (that or his dark chemistry with Saito). When the Kyoto arc ended, the author pointed out that shonen manga are better written with happy endings based on how successful the end was so he then decided to make Kaoru survive to the Revenge.
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gpanthony
Joined: 18 Dec 2013
Posts: 241
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:35 pm
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Is Sano going to kill a tiger for Kensin again?
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BlueAlf
Joined: 02 Jan 2017
Posts: 1503
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:31 am
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I really like the manga, but I do have to admit the final chapters feel just a bit underwhelming outside of Kenshin and Enishi's confrontation. Seeing how good the changes were made in the first film, I don't think I have any problems with this.
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LoopyChew
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 28
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:57 am
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My views on Watsuki aside, they were going to have to make some pretty significant changes anyway, since they used characters from the Jinchu arc in place of the OG Shinsengumi, including Gein, who was crucial for Jinchu climax).
I AM curious as to how they're going to handle Kenshin finding The Answer, because the Kujiranami fight was one of my favorite fights in the whole series. (I also liked the "A Man's Back" arc, but that could very easily be adapted out.) Presumably they'd have to find a new triggering incident, but I can't imagine anything short of what was presented in the manga that would drive Kenshin to his low.
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Generations
Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 204
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:14 am
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I certainly HOPE it's different. The flashback section was excellent, but everything after that was definitely the worst of the manga arcs.
Being different from it is a blessing, not a curse.
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Scion Drake
Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 941
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:29 am
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As I recall in the afterwards, Wakatsuki did think that it would have been better if he wrote the story just Enishi's rampaging as a juggernaut terminator and cut out the rest of the Jinchu team.
Granted these movies already had to change a good deal get the previous arcs to fit into a movie properly so its gonna be interesting to see what they end changing.
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Araki
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 382
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:06 am
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Other than the aforementioned Kaoru debacle, my biggest problem with the last arc are the "twins" that Sanosuke and co face just so they would have something to do. Really, since he wanted to use them, couldn't Watsuki come up with anything creative? Those are terrible fights.
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tintor2
Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1826
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:19 am
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| Araki wrote: | | Other than the aforementioned Kaoru debacle, my biggest problem with the last arc are the "twins" that Sanosuke and co face just so they would have something to do. Really, since he wanted to use them, couldn't Watsuki come up with anything creative? Those are terrible fights. |
Yeah, it was the laziest excuse to give them more screentime (although they kinda had a lot between vols. 24-26).
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5927
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:47 pm
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I didn’t expect people around here to be down on the Jinchuu arc for as much as I’ve seen people clamoring for an adaptation. And yes Enishi sparing Kaoru was a ridiculous cop-out as was Saito choosing to walk away from a final fight with Kenshin because of something he knew full well Kenshin would never resort to doing after the story reinforced
It after teasing it for the 4th time or so in the series.
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catandmouse
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Posts: 213
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:44 pm
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You’re saying someone should have died, but didn’t?! I’m disappointed. I never liked that character and felt it was not suitable for the protagonist path. I even dropped the story because of that.
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vanfanel
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 1242
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:37 am
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Director Otomo and his crew have done an excellent job so far of walking the tightrope between standard Japanese period drama and some of the crazier stuff in the original. I never read the manga, so whatever they make will be new to me. Hopefully, they'll be able to do for the Jinchuu arc what they did so incredibly well in the first movie: extract the core of the story and retell it in a way that works for live action. If they can do that, I think both the manga fans and general audiences will be satisfied.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5927
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:32 pm
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| catandmouse wrote: | | You’re saying someone should have died, but didn’t?! I’m disappointed. I never liked that character and felt it was not suitable for the protagonist path. I even dropped the story because of that. |
Not so much but why tease doing something, do it then effectively retcon it in such a absurd manner. Kaoru’s death non death would probably be the dumbest instance of a writer weirdly backpedaling from the killing off of a semi important character in a story if not for Araki infamously doing the same thing with Abdul in Stardust Crusaders.
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tintor2
Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1826
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:51 pm
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| vanfanel wrote: | | Director Otomo and his crew have done an excellent job so far of walking the tightrope between standard Japanese period drama and some of the crazier stuff in the original. I never read the manga, so whatever they make will be new to me. Hopefully, they'll be able to do for the Jinchuu arc what they did so incredibly well in the first movie: extract the core of the story and retell it in a way that works for live action. If they can do that, I think both the manga fans and general audiences will be satisfied. |
From what it seems these films are using "two acts" to tell one story. That's how the Kyoto films did it. The Revenge manga was also written in two acts but with a big prologue centered around Kenshin and Tomoe's relationship and a middle act centered around the supporting cast.
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