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EP. REVIEW: Trigun Stampede


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TheSleepyMonkey



Joined: 11 Jul 2022
Posts: 246
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:10 pm Reply with quote
It says a lot when literally all of the negative takes I've seen towards this series come from the either the people who seen the original and are way too hellbent on making comparisons, or people who hate 3D animation in general. I have genuinely not seen a single person who watched Sampede as their first array into the series and then said it was "poorly-written" or "poorly-paced".

I wish someone like James got to review this instead, so it would make for a non-biased, more objective review that judges Stampede based on it's own merits, rather than relying on constant comparisons to judge if this is good or not.
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JoelBurger



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 378
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:33 pm Reply with quote
TheSleepyMonkey wrote:
I wish someone like James got to review this instead, so it would make for a non-biased, more objective review that judges Stampede based on it's own merits, rather than relying on constant comparisons to judge if this is good or not.


If they wanted something judged on its own merits, they would make an original property and not resurrect something from twenty years ago to try to feed off people's brand recognition. And yeah, the show has problems, it's like Trigun on fast forward right now.
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KaidoYuji8Shinji



Joined: 15 Mar 2016
Posts: 67
Location: Manchester, NH
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:37 pm Reply with quote
Yea, I dunno it feels like something is “missing”. I can’t put my finger on it. I liked the original Trigun and accepted this was a different interpretation. Episode 3 was huge whiplash and felt “too soon”. Maybe it’s just me.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1668
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:14 pm Reply with quote
As a fan I obviously can't put my existing knowledge of the manga (and the previous anime) aside, but even counting that, and some problems I have with this show in particular, I'm actually having a decent time with Trigun Stampede so far. The animation is fine 99% of the time, the voice acting is mostly really good (Matsuoka's sound mixing was weird in the first two episodes, but it was good in episode 3), I love the OP song and the visuals, and generally the world design is OK.

My problems are mostly in two areas:

One, they're really doing Meryl dirty. Sad I absolutely don't appreciate her turning into a ditzy noob constantly being talked down to by a dude whose entire raison d'etre seems to be to hang around being a poor man's Wolfwood (I'd bet money he's going to die as soon as Wolfwood shows up), talking down to Meryl. Also, why is there no Milly! Bah.

Two, the pacing. I think this is what people here have felt as that "something that is missing" from the show. It's like Stampede started at a 9, turned it up to 11 and has been going on that speed since then. (Although I guess it's going to slow down in the coming few episodes.) Thing is, there's a reason why the manga and the first anime start out slow and go out of their way to build up Vash as this clown character, who then is revealed to be a total badass with principles, who has huge tragedies hanging over him; that it starts as an action comedy and which then gradually turns into a drama. And that is because this is how we understand who Vash is, and what sort of weight he's carrying. The thing I really appreciate about the first anime is how it just eases one into the whole situation, making us think we know Vash, then revealing more about him, making his principles and their consequences all the more profound, as well as his absolute determination not to sway from them - even when that would be a more reasonable choice. How the world gets darker and darker as Vash is confronted with increasingly cruel choices to make, and increasingly serious consequences thereof.

Stampede though just starts right in the middle, and so Vash's characterization doesn't have the time to breathe, and we even get a somewhat distorted picture of him. When he shoots at Knives, Knives' incredulously "you'd shoot me?" doesn't really mean what it should mean. (Also, the people being "if you hadn't come here this would have not happened" rings false because hey, the Nebraskas didn't come for Vash, and even Knives actually came for the plant, not for Vash, sooo yeah?) I guess Stampede only has this one cour so it can't be helped, but this rushing and compressing things is not doing Vash justice at all, and what with Vash being the heart of Trigun, it hurts the overall story.

Anyway, all these are things I'm having problems with as a Trigun fan, but I guess if I hadn't known Trigun before they wouldn't bother me, at least not as much. As I said, even as I have these problems, I'm having a good time with the show so far. I wouldn't call it "good Trigun" but it's a decent enough anime.


Last edited by SHD on Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Takkun4343



Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 1357
Location: Englewood, Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:16 pm Reply with quote
While the iron's still hot, I'll just come out and say that the whole "civilians resent and blame Vash for the destruction that was mostly other villains' doing" is my least favorite part of the quintessential Trigun experience. I understand why it was done, but Rosa telling Vash to leave and never return actually hurt me more than the entirety of Knives' carnage.
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Moonybadger



Joined: 17 Feb 2021
Posts: 25
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:29 pm Reply with quote
As someone who is sort of vaguely aware of the original show's major plot points but never actually sat down and watched it, I think Stampede is... mostly okay? It reminds me a lot of the early episodes of Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, which were trying to speedrun the plot points that the original anime had before it diverged from the manga's storyline. Tbh though Brotherhood is often touted as the better show, the pacing is terrible for the first 12 episodes or so before it finally slows down enough to be really rock solid. I'm willing to give Stampede at least that long before it finds its footing, and I'm really curious where the story will go since it revealed most of the previous iteration's late game twists really early. While I can see that Vash and Knives came from a space ship, I don't know what the purpose of that ship was or how the world got the way that it is (I haven't quite caught up on episode 3 yet, so apologies if any of that gets revealed then)

I'm also just really getting a kick out of the animation, it's jaw-droppingly gorgeous. I could complain about a few things (I think Meryl being a reporter is much less fun then her being an insurance agent and her cliche grumpy mentor is a dull replacement for Milly, who for all we know might show up later) but I still find Vash to be really charming and likeable, his values really shine through to me as a first time viewer of anything Trigun related, Meryl is still fun, the world is still intriguing, and no one can animate like Studio Orange can. I continue to be optimistic about the show as a whole!
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Matcha8



Joined: 08 May 2021
Posts: 115
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:03 pm Reply with quote
I've already accepted that Stampede's reception will be unduly and unfairly colored by the nostalgic lens that fans of the original will view it through, that there's no way for them to judge it on its own merit (even if they may claim otherwise).

Regardless, I think we can all agree (except for the 3D haters) at this point that this is Studio Orange's best outing yet from a production standpoint. It's absolutely a visual masterpiece. Having just finished the latest episode, the action sequences kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time. I'm very excited to see where it goes from here.
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JadeDahlia



Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 69
Location: New York, NY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:10 pm Reply with quote
I'm apparently in the minority here, but I thought episode 3 went way too grimdark. Escalating the stakes quickly and having a formerly light story take a dark turn can be done well (hell, the original Trigun did it just fine), but in Stampede spoiler[literally half the episode is just blood showers and death for pure shock value and spectacle that serves no real narrative purpose. And I say this as someone who watches plenty of gory stuff, but here it just feels empty and utterly unnecessary. Instead of being sad when the kid randomly fell off a cliff and died I just rolled my eyes at how excessive it was.]

I wanted to like it since I've been watching and enjoying the original (20 years late to the party, I know). But while the animation is indeed impressive, the writing just doesn't measure up.
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dabanbo



Joined: 22 Apr 2022
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:26 pm Reply with quote
Matcha8 wrote:
I've already accepted that Stampede's reception will be unduly and unfairly colored by the nostalgic lens that fans of the original will view it through, that there's no way for them to judge it on its own merit (even if they may claim otherwise).

They don't sound like the unfair one here.
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:30 pm Reply with quote
JadeDahlia wrote:
I'm apparently in the minority here, but I thought episode 3 went way too grimdark. Escalating the stakes quickly and having a formerly light story take a dark turn can be done well (hell, the original Trigun did it just fine), but in Stampede spoiler[literally half the episode is just blood showers and death for pure shock value and spectacle that serves no real narrative purpose. And I say this as someone who watches plenty of gory stuff, but here it just feels empty and utterly unnecessary. Instead of being sad when the kid randomly fell off a cliff and died I just rolled my eyes at how excessive it was.]

I wanted to like it since I've been watching and enjoying the original (20 years late to the party, I know). But while the animation is indeed impressive, the writing just doesn't measure up.


I don't think you're alone. It is a terribly contrived and ineffectual piece. For all the complaints about folks bringing past experience with the franchise with them to this new entry, you have to. For example, they explain nothing at all about what the Plants are or why they're important, why it's such a big deal to lose one, why Knives would want one. The only reason anyone new to the story would have any clue at all as to why they're important is entirely based on "this character said it was important, so it must be true".

As I told someone else - yes, there needs to be room for a remake to do something different and not just tell the same story with updated animation. But if you're going to pull out and toss away the elements that made the original iteration - manga or anime - special and beloved enough to want to be remade in the first place, you have to replace it with something. So far it seems that what they chose to replace some elements with has been more blood, gore, and frenetic activity that I don't know is actually contributing to increased pacing as much as it's just keeping things on the screen from staying still for a moment so it can sink in. Sort of like smashing the button on the elevator repeatedly as though it will actually make the elevator car move any faster.

And as others have also mentioned already, if they didn't want to get comparisons to Trigun, then they shouldn't have attempted to remake Trigun. You get the good and the bad when you choose to make a project like this, same as the live-action attempts we've seen of other anime over the years. Plenty enough other writers have written stories using the same beats and characterization of some past story, but added their own twists and framing. Heck, Hiro Mashima has done this with his own works for how many decades now? Do that and call it something other than Trigun and you could cut at least half the comps. But they chose to lean into it. So they have to endure and overcome the comps.
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KaidoYuji8Shinji



Joined: 15 Mar 2016
Posts: 67
Location: Manchester, NH
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:37 pm Reply with quote
I think most people seem to agree about episode 3. Maybe if they fleshed out the characters more. Maybe if it was episode 7 or8 where we cared about the characters. It just was jarring and felt out of place. I actually had to rewatch the end of episode 2 and then 3 again just because I felt I missed something. And the gore for gore sake just seemed excessive.
I have some nostalgia to the og Trigun, but that was a solid B show for me. So I was excited about this new series.
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bleachj0j



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 901
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:25 pm Reply with quote
As someone who has never seen the og series, I have been enjoying the new take. Episode 3 was probably the first time I really felt the "It moves too fast" critique. As beautiful as it was it just felt too soon. I know this is one cour, but maybe episode 6 introduce Knives? After establishing a status quo and better conveying the plants and world. Then have Knives show up and make this big entrance. Studio Orange is clearly invested in the project so I hope it sticks the landing.
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AJ (LordNikon)



Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 474
Location: Kyoto
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:10 pm Reply with quote
My ¥2, narative-wise, original is better IMHO. Pacing feels rushed.Vash seems like bigger goofball, with skills, but not is two sided coin who goes from goofy to "bad-ass" and back to goofball.

I do not get all the:
Quote:
People should not be mad at Vash. Knives comes for plant even if Vash not there.
This is incorrect. Vash says flat out, that he is on the run because Knives is always close behind. Maybe, this was transnational, but Vash clearly stated Knives is always following. Even in last episode, the bomber who hire him was surprised by Knives showing up, saying he did not expect to see him [Knives] in town.

Knives would have eventually taken plant in time, but Vash's presence sped it up.

Any way, I will watch it to the end, but I am not fan of how they moved the big reveal about Knives and Vash from end to start of story.
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srlracing



Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 87
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:56 am Reply with quote
As a huge fan of the original I was enjoying the difference in adaptation up until episode 3 even if I did not necessarily agree with their narrative choices. For me, the show jumped the shark by going far more violent and grotesque than I can personally handle. I do not think I will continue watching.
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AholePony



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 330
Location: Arizona
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:44 am Reply with quote
This is way too "standard shounen tropes" only 3 episodes in. Nebraska family become friends! Knives is apparently a sorcerer or something, what's with this super power crap?

One of the great things about the original was that when Vash was finally emotionally ready to face Knives, they were on equal footing "skill-wise". But here I guess Knives has knife powers and Vash I guess will have Stampede powers?
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