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Answerman - Addressing the Amazon AI Dubs Controversy




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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2577
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2025 11:41 am Reply with quote
Only time will tell how a potential upcoming AI bubble bursting will affect these industries. Most bubble bursts lead to slowing of production, in expectation that there will be a market someday, but not an outright halt, and AI is going to be enticing in a lot of ways. I do think the infrastructure is going to take the biggest hit, not the companies actually using the AI. Beyond this, I don't really know what to say.

I want to believe that we have some general control over what our world looks like, but companies just feel... more and more incentivized to wrestle that control from us and then not listen to criticism when we don't don't like their decisions, and it's depressing. Even more so knowing the current administration in the US where a lot of these companies originate is eager to deregulate all these industries, allowing them to do more henious things to disadvantage us in the name of profit. Most generations have felt the world flying past them as newer generations embrace new status quos, but I really worry about the next generation growing up in a technological ecosystem designed to occupy their attention and stifle their control of their own lives...
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FishLion
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Joined: 24 Jan 2024
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2025 12:05 pm Reply with quote
I'm not sure why you keep saying AI is inevitable, Microsoft was one of the earliest AI backers and the have slashed their usage targets by as much as 50% because they just aren't making money. They say those are growth targets and not current usage rates, but the fact is they spent all this money believing they could make at least twice as much as they expect to now and we can probably expect to see those target drop further. Regular, non-nerdy people are also starting to be upset by the degree of waste, the amount that it drives up electricity prices near data centers and computer parts worldwide, not to mention many notable case of deefake porm of real people (including children) being a regular use. AI went from a magical and fun tool they promised would bring a lot of easy rewards to being something that causes far more harm to the average person than it adds to the average person's life.

https://tech.yahoo.com/ai/copilot/articles/microsoft-scales-back-ai-goals-144521568.html

Quote:
Microsoft was an early investor in many of the latest AI companies. It ended up with a serious stake in OpenAI and benefited from early access to its models, creating Bing Chat and Copilot when Google, Meta, and Anthropic were just getting started. But now its momentum has stalled, and like everyone else, it's not making much money from its AI products. That's because no one is buying them, and that is because very few people actually find them useful, The Information reports.

"The Information’s story inaccurately combines the concepts of growth and sales quotas," Microsoft said in a very defensive statement (via Futurism), adding that "aggregate sales quotas for AI products have not been lowered."

Petulance aside, tests from earlier this year found that AI agents failed to complete tasks up to 70% of the time, making them almost entirely redundant as a workforce replacement tool. At best, they're a way for skilled employees to be more productive and save time on low-level tasks, but those tasks were already being handed off to lower-level employees. Having an AI do it and fail half the time isn't exactly a winning alternative.


I know you are just trying not to put on rose colored glasses, but all of the objective measures of AI recently are horrible. 5% of all AI companies make a profit and most companies end up rehiring workers when they try to replace them, the tools fail more often than they succeed and if you have no lower level workers to fix those mistakes now the higher level workers are stuck on even more menial tasks. AI will get better but I personally believe it will always need a babysitter or the quality will stay as bad as what we saw and it won't save enough time te be worth the money unless we get a much more energy intensive and expensive program to run it, at which point no money will be saved to the degree it's worth the negatives. Because the AI companies have to subsidize the costs or even fewer people will use them.

The only reason it has an air of inevitability is because the large companies that are some of the richest on the planet are using the pressure of all their wealth (which is mainly speculative and based on VC valuation) to shove it down our throats and convince us to use it so we pay for their dinky little subscriptions. They are trying to do what Amazon did with diapers.com, undercut the cost of production by selling so cheap you're losing money until your competitors are out of business then jack the prices back up to match your actual cost when there is no competitor to fight you. Just this time the competitor is people making real art. It has already caused massive harms by causing companies to bet hard on speculative tools rather than workers, but in the great scheme of history it is not going to take down the traditional anime industry or anything else people expect quality out of because unlike Amazon in that example AI can't even do the job of replacing the product properly. If we don't let them undercut production by refusing to buy services we can still save a good bit of jobs and maybe even rehire many people that were fired, that last part may be a little pie in the sky but it's more likely than the future AI being as good as everyone claims.

Not to mention as I have said before in the other articles about AI dubs, that people like interacting with performers, even if AI could match the performance you can't take an AI to a con and ask them what it was like being on the show and it's not like the Japanese performers have the time to do cons for every language AI aims to replace even with translation accounted for. Not to mention that people love knowing their dub industry, they may not sneeze too much at a recast but finding out your favorite dubbers all got put out of the business forever because AI automated it would really sour my future fan participation or any spending I had planned to do. There are just too many losses for basically no gain, and even if they call it a beta those dubs will probably kill consumer interest in most primarily AI dubs for a long time outside of the subset pirating anyway sho don't care about quality or paying to begin with. This is all so, so much more than complicated than getting a computer to output a good dub, if it did there would be other holes in the industry that could lower fan enthusiasm, engagement, and spending.

So while I get its everywhere and that its strong and well funded I really wish you would at least wait until there's more proof we can't do anything to fight it rather than repeating the myth every time when it has objectively gone downhill in terms of financial success and public popularity every time we revisit the topic. It's going to be present in some form because it has spent too much to die completely, but the world where our creative products are made by AI is not inevitable in the least with current technology.
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FishLion
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Joined: 24 Jan 2024
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2025 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Juno016 wrote:
Most generations have felt the world flying past them as newer generations embrace new status quos, but I really worry about the next generation growing up in a technological ecosystem designed to occupy their attention and stifle their control of their own lives...


The upside in this is that even though the youngest generation uses it constantly for personal productivity work, they actually agree it is bad for creative thinking. They may even use it themselves for survival reasons, but very few of them are excited about paying for something made with it. Not to mention the fact that people are getting more upset now about the costs to communities like higher electricity, pollution, deepfake porn, and scamming the elderly. Most people see AI harm them more every day than they see any use for it especially creatively and even if they use it themselves for productivity like emails.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 5348
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2025 1:58 pm Reply with quote
One thing that this highlights is how little any of the results/consequences matter to the biggest pushers. The production committees know that they don't have the resources to do anything else besides maybe decline to license things to Amazon in the future. Amazon is too big to care about that. Your Sentais of the world would be toast if they couldn't get licenses.
The cost of a dub is nothing to a company that size, but the training data was deemed more valuable than the actual output. They quickly pulled it because it was disposable in the first place.

And yeah, people do need to stay on top of this. More than anything, I think the objective here was to see what they could get away with doing. The commercial uses for AI have been far less about doing things that were not doable before, and far more about spending less to do the same things. Nobody should be deluded enough to think that any of those cost savings will find their way to the customer.
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2025 4:15 pm Reply with quote
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My advice to Amazon is to stick to training and testing your AI-generated dubbing and subtitling on shows that you own outright and that you have produced.

Or better yet, not use it at all! All AI has shown so far is how detached CEO's are from the real world. If they want to have all the money on God's Green Earth and receive sycophantic love from everyone, they need to stop using it. Otherwise, they'll continue to be starved of the feeling of being cool, which for some bigwigs is enough to drive them mad.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2025 4:32 pm Reply with quote
The only thing of AI’s I want is the bubble to burst so the market will be flooded with the RAM all these bankrupt startups won’t need.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 8225
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2025 4:47 pm Reply with quote
I'll say this (and I've previously said this): AI dubbing is not good, nor will not go up to the standard to actual human acting/voice acting. What Amazon Prime did was disgraceful and unacceptable!!! I don't want to hear a robotic soulless voice ever again.
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kouga88



Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2025 6:16 pm Reply with quote
After seeing a few clips of the AI dubbing back before they pulled it down, it is very obvious that unless the company makes some massive strides in AI voice technology, which they likely won't as AI is bleeding money in every sector, there is no way anyone would choose to watch an anime with that rather than just listening to the Japanese dub with subtitles at that point. Even "fan" dubs back when those were a thing sounded ten times better compared to what Amazon was pushing out.
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Zased



Joined: 30 Nov 2024
Posts: 142
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2025 8:34 am Reply with quote
FishLion wrote:
I'm not sure why you keep saying AI is inevitable, Microsoft was one of the earliest AI backers and the have slashed their usage targets by as much as 50% because they just aren't making money. They say those are growth targets and not current usage rates, but the fact is they spent all this money believing they could make at least twice as much as they expect to now and we can probably expect to see those target drop further.


Cutting future projections isn't the same thing as failing though, and from what I've read that's mostly because people are using other AIs instead which are the ones experiencing the surge and growth. Given how many companies are jumping on AI there's bound to be a lot of losers in the field as only some can win. Not sure that's indicative of much myself. You could draw the parallels to Microsoft previous attempts at getting into markets they were pushed out of like consoles and MP3 players or web browsers where people prefer others over their offerings.

I do think AI is inevitable too, if it already isn't considering every store and business I go to use it to some degree like an assistant or customer service and now and even my doctor uses it to transcribe our visits now. I've been playing around with Google's new Nano Banana Pro and I don't see the genie going back in the bottle myself. It's just too good at what it does. All it took was 2 random screenshots I took of a show to generate tons of perfectly on-model pictures that looked like screenshots from an actual episode. The fact one of my posts went viral and people mistook it as real screenshots from a show was both funny and kind of scary at what the future holds for this. Like, maybe companies will struggle to find a use for it but the technology itself speaks for itself I think. Someone is going to utilize it: someway, somehow.

It feels like the wrong thing to take away from this scenario is that AI voiceovers sound bad. There's plenty of perfectly generated AI voices out there so even if one is against AI I think using the 'quality' argument isn't going to hold water. Amazon's poor outing was certainly weird and makes me think it genuinely was a mistake and not meant to be seen/heard because you see amateur YouTubers utilize it better.
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FishLion
Crazy Fangirl



Joined: 24 Jan 2024
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2025 9:31 am Reply with quote
Zased wrote:
Cutting future projections isn't the same thing as failing though, and from what I've read that's mostly because people are using other AIs instead which are the ones experiencing the surge and growth. Given how many companies are jumping on AI there's bound to be a lot of losers in the field as only some can win. Not sure that's indicative of much myself. You could draw the parallels to Microsoft previous attempts at getting into markets they were pushed out of like consoles and MP3 players or web browsers where people prefer others over their offerings.

I do think AI is inevitable too, if it already isn't considering every store and business I go to use it to some degree like an assistant or customer service and now and even my doctor uses it to transcribe our visits now. I've been playing around with Google's new Nano Banana Pro and I don't see the genie going back in the bottle myself. It's just too good at what it does. All it took was 2 random screenshots I took of a show to generate tons of perfectly on-model pictures that looked like screenshots from an actual episode. The fact one of my posts went viral and people mistook it as real screenshots from a show was both funny and kind of scary at what the future holds for this. Like, maybe companies will struggle to find a use for it but the technology itself speaks for itself I think. Someone is going to utilize it: someway, somehow.

It feels like the wrong thing to take away from this scenario is that AI voiceovers sound bad. There's plenty of perfectly generated AI voices out there so even if one is against AI I think using the 'quality' argument isn't going to hold water. Amazon's poor outing was certainly weird and makes me think it genuinely was a mistake and not meant to be seen/heard because you see amateur YouTubers utilize it better.


They have invested a bananas number of dollars into AI and especially Copilot, cutting projection by 50% is absolutely a failure with the amount of infrastructure that company has been building.

Another reason I am confident that AI is not profitable is because the popular ones subsidize the cost of their use. They do charge you to generate things, but it's a pittance of the real cost, you can read more here.

https://www.uptechstudio.com/blog/the-true-cost-of-ai-when-the-subsidies-run-out

Quote:
The gap between what it costs to run these models and what companies charge for API access is substantial. Training runs for frontier models cost hundreds of millions of dollars. The GPU clusters required for inference at scale represent billions in infrastructure. Energy costs alone are astronomical—a single ChatGPT query uses roughly 10x the energy of a Google search.

Yet somehow, you can access GPT-4 for pennies per thousand tokens. Claude Sonnet for even less. Google offers Gemini with generous free tiers. These prices don’t just ignore the capital costs—they often don’t even cover the marginal cost of compute.

Why? Because right now, we’re in a land grab. Every major AI company is prioritizing ecosystem lock-in over profitability. They want developers building on their platforms. They want users getting comfortable with their tools. They want to be the default choice before someone figures out how to monetize this properly. The model is familiar: subsidize heavily, capture the market, then figure out how to make money.

We’ve seen this movie before. Uber spent years subsidizing rides to below the actual cost of providing them, burning through billions in VC money. WeWork convinced people that office space economics didn’t apply to them. In the early days of cloud computing, AWS and others underpriced services to drive adoption, then steadily increased prices as customers became dependent.

The AI correction will follow a similar pattern, but potentially more severe. Several triggers will force the shift:

VC patience runs out. Investors have been remarkably tolerant so far, but even in AI, you can’t lose money forever. As companies mature beyond Series B and C, the pressure to show a path to profitability intensifies.

Market consolidation. Right now we have aggressive competition keeping prices low. As the market matures and consolidates—and it will—pricing power will shift to the remaining players.

Regulatory and energy constraints. The energy consumption of AI is already drawing regulatory attention. Carbon costs, grid constraints, and environmental regulations could force prices up regardless of what companies want.

Industry analysts estimate that current API pricing may need to increase 3-10x to reach sustainable economics. Some models might need to go even higher. A comprehensive inference request that costs you $0.01 today might cost $0.05 or $0.10 tomorrow. For high-volume applications, that’s not a line-item adjustment—it’s an existential threat.


This isn't sustainable for creative industries. AI is already proven to save very little money in creative products that don't go fully lazy as is. Even the successful game studios using AI in creativity had to remove all traces from the final product or promise to do so to assuage fans, so this stuff really isn't going to be worth it when the real costs catch up. Ditto all those businesses using AI for services, they are either going to pass those costs on to you, stop using them, or cut other services because they are dependent now. None of those are good results for you. I do agree it will be utilized in some way shape or form, but I don't think it is going to be nearly as ubiquitous as it is now forever.

I've also always maintained it is skilled at making viral content, it's just not good at making worthwhile creative products on the level of humans, it can fake a couple of screenshots easily but it can't string those together into an animation or comic that's nearly as creatively coherent as a human could at the same cost, because it's cheaper not to have to clean up AIs mistakes because again it fails as much as 70% of the time.

Amazon may not have done the best AI dubbing ever, but it is indicative of what they want you to accept as a product. One of the largest media companies in the world posted this as a test run to see fans would accept quality this low, because they want to put in less work than a YouTuber does. Even if AI can do better they want to sell the minimum viable product and this is what we will get if creative industries become dependent on AI, which again luckily seems unlikely because when professionals use it they can see how often it fails and how it may even slow them down.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: Back stateside
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2025 4:40 pm Reply with quote
“There’s no way to stop AI!”

1) don’t bail them out when the current speculative bubble bursts.
2) put environmental restrictions on how much energy and water they consume so that they bear the burden and not the communities adjoining their data centers.

Not that those are like to happen in America’s current technobro friendly administration, but both would quickly see machine learning return to its happy niche of doing rote analytic work that humans struggle with and generating form emails for companies and organizations, I.e. the stuff it’s good at that actually help people rather than this garbage.
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Troyen



Joined: 22 May 2024
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2025 6:24 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Sometimes the distributor receives a “delivery spec,” which is a document listing deliverable assets from licensors' labs, sometimes with instructions on leaving on-screen text untranslated, subtitle positioning, and presentation quality.


Why would a licensor request on-screen text remain untranslated? Is that just something for minor text like background shop signs where the text would cause extra clutter? A lot of comedy anime like throwing up big blocks of text which contain context or the actual joke (e.g. Kaguya, Komi) and I thought it was on the distributor to decide whether they were putting in the effort to translate it, but the licensor has a say as well?
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