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This Week in Anime - Attack on Titan Gets Political


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ultimatehaki



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 1090
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:37 am Reply with quote
Stop asking about the basement Nick. No one is allowed in and no one is allowed to know what's inside, even the author. Just give it up
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johnnysasaki



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 711
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:07 pm Reply with quote
oh,I was expecting more crying of "RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA" boogeyman,like this site did to Darling In the Franxxx.Now that's some restraint.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 9969
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:10 pm Reply with quote
Micchy wrote:
And for the record, Levi will never be cool to me.

After that, I cannot trust your judgement on anything.

Seriously though, I can't say I'm in agreement with anything else you guys said either, so maybe that was less sarcastic than I thought. Smile
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1750
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:56 pm Reply with quote
Attack on Titan is a LOT more political than people realize. In fact, I would even consider it the quintessential metaphor to the corruption of the class system, ruling parties, and national interests.
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S0crates



Joined: 06 Jul 2018
Posts: 227
Location: Banned - Noticed our poor ethics
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:18 pm Reply with quote
Well, AoT always was about building the wall. And who can blame them, just look what happened the last time the illegals managed to get inside...
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Ethe





PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:46 pm Reply with quote
Micchy wrote:
"The people in power are bad" but also "the people who seized power are cool and good".


One of the things I like the most about this arc is that the writing is already making it pretty clear that, no matter how rightful their cause may seem, they're ultimately doing what's best for them. Erwin and Zachary's conversation is a perfect example of this.

I also find it telling how Pyxis says "We will put in place a new ruler of our own", when he could've easily said "the true queen/the rightful heir to the throne/Historia". He knows what's up.

Mind you, none of this means that the ones at the military top brass don't actually care about or prioritize what's best for humanity. It just shows the complexity of both the conflict and the characters that take part in it.

Micchy wrote:
It doesn't matter if you're a top commander or just some nobody; everyone's capable of taking what matters into their own hands. Which is a neat message in the abstract, but gets a little iffy once you realize that almost all of the protagonists in this show are in the military.


Yeah, that's one of the issues I have with the adaptation so far. I liked how the manga gave more focus to Dimo Reeves and the reporters. By giving the spotlight to characters that are not part of the military and highlighting their efforts and contributions to the coup, it made the message feel much more authentic. Although I won't deny that the changes they made in the anime greatly improved the pacing.


Last edited by Ethe on Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1750
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:43 pm Reply with quote
S0crates wrote:
Well, AoT always was about building the wall. And who can blame them, just look what happened the last time the illegals managed to get inside...

Yeah, the same illegals that are killing off the population that are needed for the interests of taxation towards investment of the wall and national security.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 980
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:57 pm Reply with quote
S0crates wrote:
Well, AoT always was about building the wall. And who can blame them, just look what happened the last time the illegals managed to get inside...


You probably meant that as a joke, but that is, essentially, the core political belief behind the series. It seems most of us have forgotten that once-infamous interview with the manga's author. I don't know to what extent the anime will align with that once the big reveals start to show up, but I've long since stopped watching it for that reason. (Though I can't say I was ever a big fan, anyway.)
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vonPeterhof



Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Posts: 725
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:25 pm Reply with quote
johnnysasaki wrote:
oh,I was expecting more crying of "RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA" boogeyman,like this site did to Darling In the Franxxx.Now that's some restraint.


While Jacob wasn't involved in this particular column, he actually had interesting things to say in response to the recent allegations against the manga (and here's another thread dealing more directly with the revelations that caused the whole controversy). But even if the other writers do end up agreeing with the "fascist propaganda" take, the events that underlie it are still a long way down the line in the adaptation, so not much restraint necessary at this point.

kotomikun wrote:
S0crates wrote:
Well, AoT always was about building the wall. And who can blame them, just look what happened the last time the illegals managed to get inside...


You probably meant that as a joke, but that is, essentially, the core political belief behind the series. It seems most of us have forgotten that once-infamous interview with the manga's author. I don't know to what extent the anime will align with that once the big reveals start to show up, but I've long since stopped watching it for that reason. (Though I can't say I was ever a big fan, anyway.)


Would be interesting to see that interview*, as that is certainly not what the manga is about right now. But even without going that far into the future, the reveal of the spoiler[titan within the wall] at the end of Season 1 should have been a major hint that "walls are good, m'kay" isn't the message the show is trying to impart.

*Not implying that I don't believe that such an interview exists, in fact I wouldn't put it past Isayama to have sincerely believed that at some point and later reconsidered; he did seem to have a much more genuine admiration for militarism when he was writing the earlier arcs, what with the juxtaposition of heroic soldiers with self-centred civilians.
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
Posts: 1016
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:37 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
S0crates wrote:
Well, AoT always was about building the wall. And who can blame them, just look what happened the last time the illegals managed to get inside...


You probably meant that as a joke, but that is, essentially, the core political belief behind the series. It seems most of us have forgotten that once-infamous interview with the manga's author. I don't know to what extent the anime will align with that once the big reveals start to show up, but I've long since stopped watching it for that reason. (Though I can't say I was ever a big fan, anyway.)

Yeah, Hajime Isayama has some very reprehensible views about Japan's actions in World War II that set off alarm bells about his work. And having read up to date in the manga out of morbid fascination, said world view is just going to keep getting more and more pronounced and make it impossible to escape the conclusion that Attack on Titan really is a Fascist work and has always been so from the start: https://medium.com/@urbanfriendden/attack-on-titan-horror-aesthetics-and-authoritarianism-e98f7325a893
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1750
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:45 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
Yeah, Hajime Isayama has some very reprehensible views about Japan's actions in World War II that set off alarm bells about his work. And having read up to date in the manga out of morbid fascination, said world view is just going to keep getting more and more pronounced and make it impossible to escape the conclusion that Attack on Titan really is a Fascist work and has always been so from the start: https://medium.com/@urbanfriendden/attack-on-titan-horror-aesthetics-and-authoritarianism-e98f7325a893

Which would be fine and dandy if the Titans themselves were just spoiler[natural born creatures that just occupied the whole world outside the walls as readers were originally introduced to when the manga first began. But, everything post basement strongly points otherwise.]

[Edit]: added spoilers. Play fair, people. Errinundra.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3493
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:40 pm Reply with quote
Hello? HELLO? IS THIS THING ON?

We're NOT in the "post-basement" arcs. Stop hinting at future events from the manga. Or, if you're going to do that, put it behind spoilers marked as such. I'll worry about what future events may (or may not) say about the mangaka once the anime gets there and not before.
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1208
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:42 pm Reply with quote
KabaKabaFruit wrote:
S0crates wrote:
Well, AoT always was about building the wall. And who can blame them, just look what happened the last time the illegals managed to get inside...

Yeah, the same illegals that are killing off the population that are needed for the interests of taxation towards investment of the wall and national security.


I'm not sure if we're still talking about the metaphor, but did we all miss the very first storyline of this series where the wall turned out to be completely flipping useless (and current episodes which imply that it was built with evil intent and "protecting the population" was just a convenient excuse?)
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5073
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:04 am Reply with quote
Shirtless guys and vore are what AoT is all about! Very Happy

As for military coups, this is a case where if the manga-ka holds fascist and/or pro-military views in real life, I'd rather not know about it. This series is way too entertaining to ruin with real life politics I might not agree with.
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1750
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:44 am Reply with quote
I'm sorry but I'm considering the whole "pro-fascist" agenda nothing but a gross overthought and a distraction to the manga's real message. It also seems strange to have to resort to this line of thinking considering how nihilistic the manga really is. If anything, I always looked at Attack of Titan as a good reminder into the reality of conflict and the fact that it is nothing but a gray area which should serve as a lesson to readers that nothing in life is one-sided. I would go on but that would be giving away a major spoiler
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