Forum - View topicTWIG Goes On Vacation, But The Gaming Industry Doesn't
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Greed1914
Posts: 5357 |
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Remakes don't replace the original, except for when the owners kind of do it themselves. Capcom didn't initially see the value in the "old" RE games, even the GOG was doing the heavy lifting. Some publishers delist older versions of games so you are only left with the newer one. Capcom's reaction reminds me of how American McGee approached EA wanting to make another Alice game, to the point where he would have paid them a license fee and done it on his own. It was basically a zero risk, zero effort proposition to EA, and the response was, you guessed it, "we don't see the value in that."
I think the problem is that the decisions and control of these creative works ultimately sits with business managers who don't particularly care about what industry it is. They could be managing anything, and treat it the same way, so it is lost on them that somebody might be fine with an "old" product or putting something out there knowing that it will only do ok numbers. |
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TheRealMaria
Posts: 123 |
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"Remakes don't replace the original" always seemed like lip service to me. It's pretty obvious when people and companies themselves want to replace an older work. I can at least applaud Capcom for coming out and saying it, not that they really needed to since it was obvious enough with how they essentially memory holed the original games and characters since the remakes came out. You don't replace the way the character look in the CG movies if the remakes weren't meant to be the new default.
I suppose I can't really blame them given how popular the modern Resident Evils are. Shooters are one of those genres that will do well with more mainstream audiences and leaning Resident Evil more in that direction will of course be successful. At least Capcom still put out collections of older Street Fighter games despite the newer games doing well. |
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 925 |
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Well, that's also because there's still a huge demand for those older Street Fighter games. Players don't just abandon Street Fighter 3: Third Strike just because Street Fighter 6 is out, there are dedicated audiences for those older titles. It's not a matter of newer Street Fighters being a strict technical upgrade because there is so much you have to wrap your head around when it comes to each individual game. Also, even if the "canon" design for a new game is in movies, that still doesn't invalidate the older games, I think. Again, it's all about wanting to play the original in context. The Kenneth Branagh Inspector Poirot movies don't mean that suddenly there's no reason to revisit the old David Suchet Poirot stuff. That's not how any other medium works. |
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Juno016
Posts: 2582 |
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It wasn't a retcon that Millenniummon was behind a ton of OG Digimon Adventure and 02. Ryo even appears in a flashback of Ken's in Digimon Adventure 02 itself, showing how Ken got his dark spore from Millenniummon. It was lore than was already in the games or planned to be in the games by then. Justimon's inclusion shouldn't be shocking, though. The Digimon Story creators love him and Mugendramon both. They both appear as partners of protagonists in Cyber Sleuth and Hacker's Memory who are often not exactly friends. Justimon even gets a Rider Kick cutscene in Hacker's Memory.
Time Stranger has a,lot of Ishinomori-related references, though. Protags look like Jiro and Mari from Kikaider, and tey do the Kamen Rider Kuuga pose at the character select screen after you choose them. You could also argue their outfit colors are OG Kamen Rider-branded. Fun stuff! |
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Joe Mello
Posts: 2560 Location: Online Terminal |
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Does Ryo show up in Frontier aka the most Kamen Rider of the Digimon series?
(Though I'd argue there are multiple options for most tokusatsu of the Digimon series) |
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AiddonValentine
Posts: 2952 |
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Eeeeyeah, this is where the "remakes don't replace the original!" argument falls apart because there are a LOT of instances where companies have absolutely replaced the originals, which CAPCOM has outright set into stone narratively with the REmake being canon since it first came out. Sometimes this isn't bad like while the original Tactics Ogre is unavailable, but Matsuno himself did Reborn and made a genuinely superior version with all sorts of new stuff while keeping the original narrative intact. And it's ironic he did the exact opposite with Ivalice Chronicles where he kept the original PS1 skeleton and discarded War of the Lions' additions. But anyway, CAPCOM obviously runs on "remakes are the new canon" which has a LOT of problems, not helped how the originals just play so differently. It goes under the "more polished, but less interesting" dogma. It's especially acute when the original REs are basically a completely different gameplay experience (except for the RE1 remake, ironically). And...that's shown its problems. The RE3 remake in particular cut out a LOT of the more interesting stuff like branching paths, the ammo system, and a lot of locations. This is not a good thing, and it's especially grating when availability is locked off. And once again, it seems only Nintendo follows the preservation gold standard where people can complain about three versions of Mario 3 being on Switch Online, but they're still available! They didn't decide because the GBA version was out they didn't need the Mario All Stars or NES versions released. Anyway, back to haunted month |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 7201 |
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No danger of bleeding out with this one.
Could be wrong but the bewilderment may have to do with the idea of putting those games out on GOG more than anything. They probably figured people prefer playing the older games on console more than PC which at least in the case of the Windows version of Resident Evil 4 they might have a point. |
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Zimmer
Posts: 263 |
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Kicksville
Posts: 1415 |
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I can't help but wonder if there's more to the lack of old RE re-releases than we know. It might just be as boring as they put it, as in there's simply a lack of anyone within the company really pushing for it (I'm reminded of how Capcom Fighting Collection came to be because some programmers wanted to do a home port of Red Earth, apparently).
They clearly don't have any problem with Resident Evil (GameCube Remake) being out there, since it's been ported to everything and is easily available. That was before the new REmakes, sure, but they didn't exactly delist it. They also did an HD port of Code Veronica, albeit with new, weird lighting... The old PSX games have the very particular problem of having pre-rendered backgrounds that likely weren't preserved in a way to redo them in higher resolution. Square Enix clearly isn't so bothered as to let that stop them, since they still made their ports of FF7 and 8 with blurred backgrounds. But I would not be shocked if someone at Capcom simply can't get over how crappy it looks and vetoes any re-releases over it. It's easy enough for us to say "yeah whatever just give it to us" (and yes, they should!), but I can see why the creators would be more sensitive to that. I would hope the GOG releases do well enough to indicate it's worthwhile regardless. |
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Fluwm
Moderator
Posts: 1625 |
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So, no TWIG next week pretty much guarantees there's gonna be some major gaming news, huh? Here's hoping it's some good news for a change.
That's a perfectly valid take, but it's only applicable to an ever-diminishing slice of the Remake Trilogy's target audience -- because we are, very emphatically, never going to have everyone on the same page here. There are always gonna be people whose first and only experience with classic games is gonna come from remakes -- and as original titles become harder to access, as the number of people playing games continues to increase, and as new generations (annoyingly) keep on being born into the world, that number's only ever gonna get bigger. We cannot forget that as familiar as we may be, we're not everyone -- and as ubiquitous as knowledge of FF7 may be even for gamers of a certain age who've never played it, that knowledge is by no means universal. (Nor, I think, is it fair to say already being familiar or "spoiled" by some elements -- or even every element -- of a story somehow makes that story less relevant or appealing.) ...Anyway, in terms of the old "remakes don't replace originals" argument, coming at it from the other direction, I think we need to acknowledge that there's a significant portion of consumers who want and actively advocate for that to be the case, usually out of derision for older games in general. Even when remakes are explicitly commentary works, or not even actual remakes in the first place -- which is my tedious cue to swing back Final Fantasy VII Remake trilogy discourse (sigh). We can shout out "remakes don't replace originals" until we're hoarse, but we're still gonna have to deal with not-insignificant numbers of people (typically more casual fans) who will ignore the original game entirely and view the remake as a perfectly adequate (or preferable) substitute. This is an attitude that's been inculcated in us by this industry's extreme fetishization of the new. You really don't see this kind of thing with any other medium -- the utter disdain so many half for "old" media. It's beyond apathy, well into the realm of antipathy. .... Re:Metaphor -- you should play it! It's really good! My favorite Atlus game since P4, I think. As for this new Guidebook edition... I guess on the one hand I'm happy that it's not an expanded release in the vein of P3P/P4G/P5R, but on the other hand... who exactly is it for? Who wants to buy a new version of the game with the sole selling point of being bundled with an incomplete guidebook? I dunno. Doesn't sound very appealing. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2999 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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RE2 & 3 did receive Japan-only PC re-releases that came out on DVD with rather high-quality backgrounds, i.e. the SourceNext ports, and it's those releases that the modern fan HD restorations are based on, so there are high (enough) quality backgrounds for those two games. RE1, admittedly, didn't get that kind of benefit, but even that has had a fan HD restoration (to some extent), so it's not impossible. But, also, Capcom eventually did "get over" it & allowed GOG to re-release the games on PC, and have been shown that there is good reason to keep the OG RE games available again. Sure, Capcom may not be willing to do it themselves, but they now know that there are other companies willing to do the work for them. |
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wolf10
Posts: 992 |
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I'll admit I haven't fully watched the short, yet. I finished the game late last week and I knew what it was about the second I saw the thumbnail.
Time Stranger, really went wild on the deep cuts, though. Even just running around Central Town you can see a lot of the "random" groupings are anything but, like Arukenimon and Mummimon, or Gotsumon and Pumpkinmon. Presenting cheeky inside jokes in such a way that people who don't get them don't feel like they're missing out is kind of an art form. But most importantly, in this age of edgy and "subversive" reboots, they really went there with a game about how kids shows still matter when you're an adult, and can even save the world. That's how to make a franchise grow up with your audience: serve up the same core feelings as ever, but with a little more seasoning. |
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lufia2rocks
Posts: 69 |
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It's weird to see Capcom and other people say the remakes for RE2 and 3 are the superior versions when they cut like half the content from them.
When I saw people say Persona 4 Golden was unplayable and archaic and the remake will let them finally be able to play the game I was surprised. I always felt there was a distinct cut-off point for diminishing returns with remakes but seeing what is essentially a modern game being treated like that really does seem like we'll get to a point where today's remakes are consider too old to be playable and we need to remake them again. |
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That Little Rapscallion
Posts: 150 |
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Adventure is never mentioned in the Japanese version. The closest you get is one of the card game tournaments Ruki won was called the Cathode Tamer tournament and the first movie features Omegamon fighting Apocalymon who fall into a wormhole and appear in the Tamers universe, but it's never outright confirmed or stated to be the Adventure versions of the characters.
As long as they don't conflict with their current remasters and remakes, at least. The original Paper Mario TTYD, Super Mario RPG, and Mario VS Donkey Kong games are not available on the NSO service so you're stuck with the remakes which I assume is an intentional marketing decision to prioritize the remakes. Still, it is nice to see the original Wind Waker on NSO despite some people begging for a port of the HD version from Wii U with all of it's changes. I guess technically Galaxy 2 now falls in the category of only having the remaster available since Galaxy 1 is on the 3D All Stars collection. |
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Kicksville
Posts: 1415 |
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Yes, like I said after that, I would hope the GOG releases doing OK would convince them it's fine. Those ports do have better backgrounds, but I don't think it erases the concern that it may still not look good enough to those in charge. And I think it's saying something even some fans think "HD upscaling" is necessary. In other words, AI upscaling - which has been around since before "AI" as we think of it, of course, but I wonder if fans would be so forgiving if they had to pay for overly smoothed, possibly made up details. Even if somebody else does it (AI upscaled or blurry or otherwise), if they release them to every platform, Capcom will still take the blame. Either way, it's just my guess as to why we got REmake, RE0, and Code Veronica years ago but not those. |
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