Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - Artsy-Fartsy
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MiniMarps
 Posts: 187 |
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The way I think of it, whether or not something qualifies as art isn't a "what?" question but a "why?" question. All music is sounds, but not all sounds are music. Music is sounds made by people who want you to appreciate the sounds they're making.
That logic can be taken and applied to anything from writing to cooking to professional wrestling, and yes, to manga and anime. Minimum-effort assembly line isekai #66,739,102 probably isn't art, because the people who made it probably don't care whether or not it will inspire any significant thoughts or feelings within those beholding it. But something like Utena, which could have gotten away with being far less than what it was, but the creators went above and beyond the bare minimum? At that point it is art, because artistic intent was applied to it. Tl;dr, anime that tries to be art is art, but not all anime does. Same as anything, really. |
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 926 |
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One of the many terrible things about the "the curtains are blue!" movement is that people refuse to believe anything has any deeper meaning, which is why so much that actually DOES handle deep themes or DOES display ambition with its presentation gets slapped with being "pretentious." So many people refuse to eat anything but chicken nuggets and get offended at the notion of even trying a mango curry.
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Aerdra
Posts: 559 |
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I sharply disagree with this. A lot of effort goes into putting together an anime episode, including the original author/illustrator, directors, scriptwriters, animators, musicians, miscellaneous roles, outsourced workers, and so on. In a broad sense of the word "art", every episode of anime is a work of art. Whether or not one enjoys it is another matter, but that's true of all art. |
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Slizardo
 Posts: 24 |
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Of course the old saying of "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" is also true. I do think some people try to attribute meaning or themes to a work that it is clearly not trying to say. This seems to be more apparent in cases where we read interviews with mangaka or anime directors who dismiss or debunk various theories or head-canons people have attributed to their works over the years. I would say the problem generally comes down to if people are just so adamant on whatever interpretation or conclusion they have arrived at and refuse to consider any other alternative reading or what other people think. Some people do want to be seen as the only one who truly understands a piece of media and everyone else is just blind to the obvious and lacking in media literacy. That is probably where the pretentious label stems from; especially if they feel their voice means more than the creator's own words on the subject if they're on record stating what their intention was. The "media literacy" term is one I see thrown around quite often in recent discussions and about a particular show, movie, book, or comic and often times it's just used to say their personal interpretation is more valid than someone elses -- even the original authors. People are not immune to hubris. |
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IronWish
 Posts: 234 Location: Ukraine |
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The Death of the Author is a thing though. Piece of art can have meanings in it well beyond original artistic intent. Different people having different (and even conflicting) interpretations of a thing is also completely normal! In general "I think X means Y" is not fundamentally at odds with author stating "I didn't intend for X to mean anything". Most of art out there is not a puzzle with a unique solution. While what you say about people adamantly putting their interpretations above any other can be true, that mostly comes down to being an asshole to others about it, not to interpretations themselves. |
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MiniMarps
Posts: 187 |
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Yes, I am aware of that. Just as I am aware that a lot of effort went into making the cheeseburger I got from Wendy’s yesterday. But that cheeseburger wasn’t art, because it wasn't a product of artistic intention. Ultimately, those people's objective was not necessarily to make a good cheeseburger; their objective was to earn their paychecks. It's the same with anime. Every anime requires a lot of effort -- I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. That said, it's not hard to tell the difference between shows that put in just the necessary amount of effort, and shows that put in more than what is strictly necessary. The shows in the latter category are art, because at that point they're something that someone has made because they want you to appreciate it. That's what I mean when I say it's a question of "why?" not "what?" |
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An Unchosen One
 Posts: 206 |
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Death of the author is nonsense; anyone who's actually read the essay can see that Barthe was just spouting drivel that's insulting to the people who make art. |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 10364 Location: Virginia |
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It would seem that everyone has their own definition of "art". As shown above some of those definitions are contradictory. Essentially as a word "art" is meaningless. It cannot be used as a form of communication since you can't be sure the person hearing or reading it has the same understanding you do. Almost anything can be considered art if you can use the right words to justify your opinion.
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mdo7
 Posts: 8230 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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I fully agreed with Alan45 on this. How you define "art" is in the eye of the beholder!!! I don't know why some people keep debating on "art" in anime. Just watch and enjoy. |
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FishLion
Crazy Fangirl Posts: 861 |
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To me the difference between craftsmanship and art is that craftsmanship is doing what needs to be done to make an object functionally workable while art is the less necessary parts. The thing is that most objects have to have some of each, you may be carving a table just to make a table without any concern for the artistic design, but historians could later find those tables and say they are traditional woodworking or folk art or something.
That's why art actually has to do a lot with context, some guy just making a table may not think of his work as anything more that a table but a consumer may view that as a an artistic and gorgeously handmade work of art table that puts factory made wood to shame. Look at all the works that are trashed at the time of release but have a reexamination years later and are suddenly considered cult classics. My point is that people will always disagree about the artistic value of an individual object based on what it's compared to and depending on the context they consume the work in. People call the latest assembly line series not art because it is workmanlike, but that's because it's being compared to other anime with higher artistic value. Even a workmanlike series requires a lot of craftmanship and creativity that would definitely designate it art compared to painting fences, but because people compare them to the staggering achievements of artists focused on pushing the medium they end up looking not much like art in comparison. So this will always be a case by case thing. The context and the interpretations of the message will change what people perceive a work as, but as long as there is artistic decision making even workmanlike series are clearly art. |
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Alphael
Posts: 74 |
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I can't say I've ever seen an anime series I'd describe as pretentious. That word is usually only applicable to certain individuals who discuss anime. A lot of people seem to just seem to use "art" in place of "good". So a show they don't like is never art and can dismiss it with impunity while everything they do like is conveniently art and therefore possessing of some superior and immeasurable value that can never be questioned while another series is inherently inferior due to "Reasons".. I've never been a fan of the 'is x art" discussion since it's ultimately pointless. Just watch whatever you want.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 19140 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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In my view, a creative work does not have to have deeper meaning for it to be considered art; it can be taken at face value and still qualify. Likewise, a creative work does not have to be "good" (or even tasteful) to be considered art. That being said, I do acknowledge that there's a subcategory of art that I would describe as "art for art's sake," where simply being artistic is the work's primary goal. We don't see much of that in anime, but a series like SHIBOYUGI, where the artistic impression is as important as the story being told, is pretty close.
As for the discussion about being pretentious, I classify artistic works that way when their focus on making a point overrides their artistic merits. For me, many Ikuhara works fall into that category. (Though I am fully aware that's not a popular view on his work.) |
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dm
Subscriber Posts: 1724 |
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Monogatari is not the only visually interesting work from Akiyuki Shinbo (not even the most interesting).
Soul Taker was an early series where his framing, staging, and use of intense shadow came to the fore (drawing comparisons to the 70s Italian expressionistic directors like Argento (Suspiria), but it even showed up in places like Pani Poni Dash, and Tsukuyomi Moon Phase. Those two series were also interesting through their use of music (especially PPD). PPD and Tsukuyomi Moon Phase also had scenes that looked like they were set on a stage (Tsukuyomi Moon Phase had a cut-away house, with action going on simultaneously on the first and second floors, some of the classroom scenes in PPD were set on a physical stage, as though in a theater). I think some of his best work in that regard was the Starship GIrl Yamamoto Yohko TV series, which (sadly) was never licensed (the OVA wasn’t as visually interesting). |
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fuuma_monou
 Posts: 2032 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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I think the only official English-translated license for Yamamoto Yohko TV was the AXN-Asia broadcast. |
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Mongoose
Posts: 7 |
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To me something is art if it evokes emotion. That is probably why the argument of is it or isn't it art persists, especially for anime and video games. What makes me feel something may not affect you the same way, so while I consider it art, you write it off as drivel. This is why I try not to write anything off as drivel and instead, try to understand why another person would find value in a thing.
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