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Interview: Under the Dog's Jiro Ishii and Koji Morimoto


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scchan



Joined: 05 Oct 2009
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Location: Exeter, UK
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:09 am Reply with quote
Interesting conversations. It does tell a lot about the business of making money from shows - in Japan, it does not come from the actual show itself, but merchandises (including DVDs) or licensing rights of the merchandises. I think most of who follows the issue knows that already. In Japan: no DVD sales - no money to be made.

As far as what anime consumer will buy often departs from how the production team that may consider as artistic. Sometimes consumer taste and artistic value do converge (like Eva or Madoka), but more often they are not. In the end: Love Live and Dragon Ball do outsell Koe no Katachi and Otoyome Gatari by a wide margin. In the end, you do need the DVD and merchandising sales to finance your project.
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HeeroTX



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:13 am Reply with quote
The middle part reads like:

"We had a great idea that we wanted to make in the 90s, but it was too generic, so now we're trying to sell it on nostalgia value"

I also think its interesting to hear the dithering on the value of production committees. I'm sure that's largely in an effort to not burn (or maybe rebuild) some bridges, but considering the tone of the original campaign it's just kind of humorous.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:17 am Reply with quote
Very interesting and informative. I was under the impression that they had a pretty high animation budget for the amount of content they were putting out, so I'm curious what they meant by getting a "higher budget through a production committee". Maybe they were referring to the entire project?

I definitely look forward to that trailer come Summer.
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MajorZero



Joined: 29 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:20 am Reply with quote
I have a feeling that after reading this pretty long interview I still don't know anything about this project apart from usual PR talk. It was good to read about production committee involvement, but how much of it is true remains to be seen.
Quote:
It's not that Japanese anime fans dislike something like Under the Dog. It's just that those people who buy DVDs and blu-rays…they simply don't buy something like Under the Dog.

Well, first season of Psycho-Pass sold rather well, so, I think there's still market for productions not aimed at otaku or fujoshi. Though, by looking at majority shows on the market... it's no wonder why people say things like that.
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Xristophoros



Joined: 01 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:29 am Reply with quote
as someone who has not been as invested in anime productions from 2010 and onward and who doesn't like the current state of the anime industry (generally speaking, there are exceptions of course), this series sounds very appealing to me. it is great to see anime producers indirectly acknowledge that anime these days is not catering to everyone like it once did. they are making great effort to stray away from the "norm" which is refreshing. i am looking forward to hearing more news about this series Very Happy
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scchan



Joined: 05 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:26 pm Reply with quote
Xristophoros wrote:
as someone who has not been as invested in anime productions from 2010 and onward and who doesn't like the current state of the anime industry (generally speaking, there are exceptions of course), this series sounds very appealing to me. it is great to see anime producers indirectly acknowledge that anime these days is not catering to everyone like it once did. they are making great effort to stray away from the "norm" which is refreshing. i am looking forward to hearing more news about this series Very Happy


In the end in the real world, you still have to make money, and you have to make what will generate a profit. Reality sets in, and money will do the talking. That's the cruel reality of capitalism.
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Yause



Joined: 10 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:49 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:

I also think its interesting to hear the dithering on the value of production committees. I'm sure that's largely in an effort to not burn (or maybe rebuild) some bridges, but considering the tone of the original campaign it's just kind of humorous.


Morimoto is part of the production committee system, so the commentary is naturally going to be positive. In fact, the conclusion here is that production committees bring greater stability, ensure that everyone gets paid, and is necessary if they want a shot at recouping costs on large-scale projects (i.e. in theory, there's greater freedom outside a committee, but once money is considered, the end result is similar. Either they merchandise successfully and play by the market, or they lose their shirts)

That said, Jiro Ishii certainly tried to downplay criticism of the system during previous interviews by stressing that not all committee-funded projects are characterized by conflict. Burning bridges with these companies is akin to an industry blacklist (and I'm not sure Kinema Citrus or any of the creative staff would be willing to risk that).
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:14 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
The middle part reads like:

"We had a great idea that we wanted to make in the 90s, but it was too generic, so now we're trying to sell it on nostalgia value"

I also think its interesting to hear the dithering on the value of production committees. I'm sure that's largely in an effort to not burn (or maybe rebuild) some bridges, but considering the tone of the original campaign it's just kind of humorous.


I think the reason they slammed production committees as hard as they did was part of the promotion. In reality they probably need them to do all the organising and distribution.

Recently I've been wondering if this will just be a less terrible version of Angel Cop. If they had made this back in the 90s it may of been lost among all the other OVA trash that flooded the market.

But hopefully it will turn out great.
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Xristophoros



Joined: 01 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:49 pm Reply with quote
scchan wrote:
Xristophoros wrote:
as someone who has not been as invested in anime productions from 2010 and onward and who doesn't like the current state of the anime industry (generally speaking, there are exceptions of course), this series sounds very appealing to me. it is great to see anime producers indirectly acknowledge that anime these days is not catering to everyone like it once did. they are making great effort to stray away from the "norm" which is refreshing. i am looking forward to hearing more news about this series Very Happy


In the end in the real world, you still have to make money, and you have to make what will generate a profit. Reality sets in, and money will do the talking. That's the cruel reality of capitalism.


of course, but that's assuming there isn't a market for an akira-ghost in the shell-kite-leon the professional-nikita inspired anime series... to assume such a series wouldn't find an interested demographic and turn a profit is silly. of course it would. we need to see more anime series in the "thoughtful" sci-fi/action/espionage genre. also, they don't all need to follow the traditional 13 or 26 episode format or be syndicated on television. i would much prefer a 6 part ova series with higher production values than what you get with typical anime series. if the total length is 1/3 of a 26 episode series, the budget would even be smaller than that of a full series and be easier to finance.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:55 pm Reply with quote
I believe that
Quote:
The original pitch for Under the Dog on Kickstarter was that Hiroaki Yura wanted to create the show free from the constrictions of a production committee. Did you agree with that attitude?
should be highlighted as an ANN question.
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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:25 pm Reply with quote
Fascinating interview, so I guess it actually was creative differences between Ando, Ishii and Hiroaki Yura for the split. Their comments about production committees were also very interesting. Contrary to what Ishii said, it seems like there is a small market for these type of shows (in Japan). After all, both seasons of Psycho Pass, including the movie, did surpringsly well for a sci-fi/crime thriller. Obviously, it's still true there isn't enough of a market to make alot more of these kinds of shows.

Xristophoros wrote:
also, they don't all need to follow the traditional 13 or 26 episode format or be syndicated on television. i would much prefer a 6 part ova series with higher production values than what you get with typical anime series. if the total length is 1/3 of a 26 episode series, the budget would even be smaller than that of a full series and be easier to finance.

I agree. If Under the Dog does turn out successful, I'd much prefer a 3-6 part OVA series where they can really maximize their budget as opposed to them stretching the show out to a 24-26 episode series. I guess it depends on how much story they want to tell and how much funding they get.
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navycherub



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:50 pm Reply with quote
Regarding Psycho-Pass, I think you all might be ignoring a bit the fujoshi appeal that it was marketed with before, during, and after its broadcast (and once again for season 2, which certainly did not sell badly), in addition to the fujoshi-friendly Amano Akira character designs, as well as its clear connection to the hugely successful Madoka. You can argue all you want about the actual contents of the show, but it is certainly marketed very well.
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acetatsujin



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:18 pm Reply with quote
Hearing this [expletive] idiot talk really pisses me off at this point. I put 370 USD for this god damn thing so it better not fudge up, and I want my items in my mail by the end of this year.

Wow I am SO PISSED. Shitty producer with his shitty ideas.
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Xristophoros



Joined: 01 Sep 2013
Posts: 149
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:46 pm Reply with quote
acetatsujin wrote:
Hearing this [expletive] idiot talk really pisses me off at this point. I put 370 USD for this god damn thing so it better not fudge up, and I want my items in my mail by the end of this year.

Wow I am SO PISSED. Shitty producer with his shitty ideas.


you should know that kickstarter projects can sometimes be a gamble and do not always turn out as originally promised/expected. that isn't to say under the dog will not live up to expectations... but if it doesn't, well, that was always a possibility. in the future maybe you shouldn't blindly donate so much money towards something if it is going to stress you out so much? also, you cannot always put a deadline on creativity. delays often happen for a reason. who cares when this project is completed, so long as the end product is great. that is what matters in the end, right?
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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:57 am Reply with quote
navycherub wrote:
Regarding Psycho-Pass, I think you all might be ignoring a bit the fujoshi appeal that it was marketed with before, during, and after its broadcast (and once again for season 2, which certainly did not sell badly), in addition to the fujoshi-friendly Amano Akira character designs, as well as its clear connection to the hugely successful Madoka. You can argue all you want about the actual contents of the show, but it is certainly marketed very well.

Now I'm curious, does anyone know how much of Psycho Pass's video and merchandise sales come from fujoshi market? Who would've thought fujoshi would be into sci-fi crime thrillers, lol. Personally, I'm glad they marketed the fact that PP was also written by Urobuchi as you get both the otaku and the fujoshi crowd that way. Ironically, for all the fujoshi designs, Psycho Pass is a show that I would actually recommend to a non-anime fan.

Xristophoros wrote:
acetatsujin wrote:
Hearing this [expletive] idiot talk really pisses me off at this point. I put 370 USD for this god damn thing so it better not fudge up, and I want my items in my mail by the end of this year.

Wow I am SO PISSED. Shitty producer with his shitty ideas.

you should know that kickstarter projects can sometimes be a gamble and do not always turn out as originally promised/expected.

@acetatsujin, I put in $25 for the kickstarter but I can feel your pain if you put a lot more and still haven't seen any results yet. However, it's also important to remember that contributing to a kickstarter isn't the same as preordering something.
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