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INTEREST: Cancer Researcher Praises, Explains Cells at Work! Anime's Episode 7


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gedata



Joined: 04 May 2013
Posts: 479
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:12 pm Reply with quote
Cancer cells are just living their lives the way that they have been genetically created to do. The problem and fault of it is the replication error that gave them the wrong genetic information that causes rapid and unchecked growth and replication.

It doesn't change that they need to die for the body to live but cancer isn't some intruder trying to destroy your body for it's own benefit like other diseases, it's literally a part of your body doing what it was programmed to do but being programmed to do the wrong things by mistake. The way cancer was handled here makes sense given all this, and the series has always made a point of the needs of the few being outweighed by the many (remember how those red blood cells were sacrificed to make a clot in the 2nd episode?). But this series applies that sort of extreme logic to abstractions of cells that are actually aware of inherently unfair bodily processes can be to their own cells so why wouldn't the one cell that has it the worst want to call that out?

As insensitive as this might sound of me, the whole "if you had lost a family member to cancer you'd be angry too!" with regards to the latest episode to me that just sounds like people putting their personal feelings before facts. It's not like cancer cells WANT to kill people, just like it's not like the immune system wants to send people into anaphylaxis over nuts, milk or bee stings. It just happens. The tragedy of cancer has more to do with the body malfunctioning and being cause for it's downfall then it does with alien pathogens on the attack.
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Amuris



Joined: 05 Apr 2016
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:18 pm Reply with quote
if anything, that reaction is backwards. If you have had an experience with cancer, than you should be more interested in the reality of it and it's process, not simply want it to be some caricature of evil.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2258
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:22 pm Reply with quote
gedata wrote:
Cancer cells are just living their lives the way that they have been genetically created to do. The problem and fault of it is the replication error that gave them the wrong genetic information that causes rapid and unchecked growth and replication.

It doesn't change that they need to die for the body to live but cancer isn't some intruder trying to destroy your body for it's own benefit like other diseases, it's literally a part of your body doing what it was programmed to do but being programmed to do the wrong things by mistake. The way cancer was handled here makes sense given all this, and the series has always made a point of the needs of the few being outweighed by the many (remember how those red blood cells were sacrificed to make a clot in the 2nd episode?). But this series applies that sort of extreme logic to abstractions of cells that are actually aware of inherently unfair bodily processes can be to their own cells so why wouldn't the one cell that has it the worst want to call that out?

As insensitive as this might sound of me, the whole "if you had lost a family member to cancer you'd be angry too!" with regards to the latest episode to me that just sounds like people putting their personal feelings before facts. It's not like cancer cells WANT to kill people, just like it's not like the immune system wants to send people into anaphylaxis over nuts, milk or bee stings. It just happens. The tragedy of cancer has more to do with the body malfunctioning and being cause for it's downfall then it does with alien pathogens on the attack.


Like was said in the series threads, the same can be said about every pathogen. Small box wish it didn't kill us, in fact killing us means it dies along with us too. That's why almost all disease that have been with human for a long time are non lethal (like common cold) whereas lethal disease are almost all disease that have crossed over from animal recently. Disease don't want to kill us. Applying that logic just to cancer doesn't work.

It was also missing extremely important point, cancer don't just live like normal until attacked by the immune system. They aggressively expand and put immense pressure on the body (both literally by taking too much place and metaphorically by taking nutrient away from other organ).

It's not about putting personal feeling, it's just about it being a poor grasp of the subject and sending the wrong impression about the actual disease.
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xzy123



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:46 pm Reply with quote
#854688 wrote:
if anything, that reaction is backwards. If you have had an experience with cancer, than you should be more interested in the reality of it and it's process, not simply want it to be some caricature of evil.


You are saying you should sorry for cancer and do nothing.
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capt_bunny



Joined: 31 May 2015
Posts: 129
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:13 am Reply with quote
Oh wow. This is the exact opposite reaction of ANN's review about the cancer cell episode.
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ShironoKuro



Joined: 24 Dec 2016
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:25 am Reply with quote
capt_bunny wrote:
Oh wow. This is the exact opposite reaction of ANN's review about the cancer cell episode.

This.
And the fact people are literally trying to defend cancer! "Awww, this poor misshapen single duplicating cell is a living thing, it needs to breathe! Stop the hate of cancer cell!"

This is why I don't trust people who review anime/manga.
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1073
Location: End of the World
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:59 am Reply with quote
ShironoKuro wrote:
capt_bunny wrote:
Oh wow. This is the exact opposite reaction of ANN's review about the cancer cell episode.

This.
And the fact people are literally trying to defend cancer! "Awww, this poor misshapen single duplicating cell is a living thing, it needs to breathe! Stop the hate of cancer cell!"

This is why I don't trust people who review anime/manga.


Eh, the Review is the opposite of what your said on the last sentence, so they're not really comparable.

Also, people are trying to defend cancer because it's a character. Nobody's advocating for nursing IRL cancer. Wink
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Amuris



Joined: 05 Apr 2016
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:46 am Reply with quote
xzy123 wrote:
#854688 wrote:
if anything, that reaction is backwards. If you have had an experience with cancer, than you should be more interested in the reality of it and it's process, not simply want it to be some caricature of evil.


You are saying you should sorry for cancer and do nothing.


wow, that's nothing like what I said. I said that they should appreciate a more factual depiction of cancer and how it happens/functions, as it is relevant to their concerns. Making it a caricature of evil would ignore how and why it happens or the nature of how it damages the body. For example, meiam is misunderstanding that cancer functions like other pathogens. However, that completely ignores a major point about cancer, that it is mostly passive. It doesn't attack or infect other cells, it just grows without stopping. It actually doesn't even harm the body until it grows so much that it physically interferes with an organ or goes through metastasis, getting drawn into the circulatory system and placed somewhere dangerous. That's why we have benign and malignant cancer. There's actually a problem with cancer over-diagnosis and over-treatment that needs to be addressed now, where people with safe forms of cancer are given the same harsh treatments and end up sick or dying because of it.

https://prevention.cancer.gov/news-and-events/news/qa-what-cancer-0
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青白
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Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:46 am Reply with quote
Like our resident daily stream reviewer mentioned, it is uncomfortable to think about cancer cells as sympathetic characters, so the show can really confuse people in that regard. Should have portrayed cancer cells as zombies rather than as Ken Kaneki.
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 1792
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:55 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
It was also missing extremely important point, cancer don't just live like normal until attacked by the immune system. They aggressively expand and put immense pressure on the body (both literally by taking too much place and metaphorically by taking nutrient away from other organ).


But that was in the episode.
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KurouKuriko



Joined: 12 Dec 2013
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:54 am Reply with quote
Did anyone actually watch the episode? Just because he was given a tragic backstory doesn’t mean that the show is condoning or forgiving his actions. He still tried to kill the main characters in cold blood. Any ideas that he’s just an innocent babby who did nothing wrong are fan interpretations and the show shouldn’t be judged for them. The show is not defending the real-life disease of cancer for goodness sakes.

The idea that villains have to be presented as mindless monsters, or else the author is condoning them, makes for some incredibly shallow writing. Also, how come Nazis and Japanese Imperialist war criminals are glorified as heroes in anime and it’s cool, but when a natural biological phenomenon is personified as a murderer villain, it’s not okay?
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2258
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:21 am Reply with quote
killjoy_the wrote:
meiam wrote:
It was also missing extremely important point, cancer don't just live like normal until attacked by the immune system. They aggressively expand and put immense pressure on the body (both literally by taking too much place and metaphorically by taking nutrient away from other organ).


But that was in the episode.


Not really, the area cancer is in is a rundown inhabited neighborhood that's not expanding and there's no real problem that arise from the cancer being present. The immune system just randomly notice the cancer rather than noticing all the problem and having to track it down.
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 1792
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:33 am Reply with quote
^ It's rundown because of the cancer (it was a regular neighborhood before) and it's causing all sorts of issues on the bloodstream since they keep receiving a lot more nutrients than they should.

And like the show and the specialist said, immune cells are killing cancer cells all the time. This wasn't a case of already metastasized cancer - just its start, so it makes sense that there aren't major symptoms yet.
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Merida
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Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1773
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:37 am Reply with quote
KurouKuriko wrote:

The idea that villains have to be presented as mindless monsters, or else the author is condoning them, makes for some incredibly shallow writing. Also, how come Nazis and Japanese Imperialist war criminals are glorified as heroes in anime and it’s cool, but when a natural biological phenomenon is personified as a murderer villain, it’s not okay?


This. It's fine to feel uncomfortable, but blaming the writers for your own feelings is kind of silly.

Personally i thought it was a good way to explain that cancer cells are not invaders from the outside like all the other "villains" we've seen before. And even though White Blood Cell acknowledged that, he made it very clear that he'd fight and kill cancer as many times as necessary.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 2786
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:21 am Reply with quote
Speaking as someone with prostate cancer, I felt sympathetic to the cancer cell in this episode because "it's not his fault." That said, I had little "neutron bombs" embedded in those apartment complexes in my prostate and was not the least bit sympathetic to the actual cells we were killing off. They're resilient little suckers, too, so now I'm on anti-androgens and will likely be freezing my prostate soon with cryotherapy. Cancer's warning at the end that he'll be back seemed quite accurate from my experience.
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