Forum - View topicWhat's wrong with fandom today? (Explanantion here.)
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GATSU
Posts: 16413 |
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(Average otaku steamed about Sonic X, Shaman King, and Rockman .EXE being licensed for American broadcast) They're gonna dumb it down for kids!
(Me) Um, those shows are for kids. (Average otaku) No they're not, because they're more violent than American cartoons, and they occasionally have nudity and ambiguous references to the sexuality of a particular character. (Me) Ok, so how about picking up classier titles which don't use violence and nudity gratuiously to get more ratings, but do so within the context of the actual story. There's Fist of the North Star, Black Jack, Getter Robo.... (Average Otaku) Hell no! Those series are old and ugly. And I want to be entertained, not think. Plus I want toys I can show off to my friends and j-pop I can listen to in my car which will get people to notice. A bunch of old fogey's singin' Starblazers just ain't cuttin' edge! (Me) So you're saying you prefer shows which have cross-marketability value, even if they're not necessarily for adults. But you'll be damned if you let some suit tone down excessive sex and violence, because without those factors, animation and comics can't be considered "mature". (Average otaku) Exactly! Gotta catch 'em all, ya know! But not if James isn't wearing a bikini! Because that's someone's artistic vision, man! (Me) Well ok, how about seeing the Bebop movie? That's got some nasty gore. (Average otaku) Nah...I downloaded it off the net, and besides, Spirited Away's much cooler! (Me) But it's also for kids. In fact, Miyazaki even said he made it for some 13 year old daughter of a friend. (Average otaku) But it's got Japanese cultural references, which means that it's more sophisticated than American animation. (Me) So DBZ, which also has Japanese cultural references, would likewise be considered "sophisticated"? (Average otaku) Hellz yeah! Especially that last fight between Gojita and Buu! (Me) So what I'm getting is that the only kind of animation you believe should be appreciated is the kind which appeals to general audiences, but which has enough PG 13 to R-rated material to make you feel less childish for enjoying animation as a whole. Oh, and obscure cultural references are a plus too, because it makes you smarter than everyone else for knowing them. You don't want to think, just to feel. (Average otaku) Wow, man, it's like you read my mind. (Me) It's not like there's much to read. |
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jmays
ANN Past Staff
 Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Hey! I like J-POP. I'm insulted. (j/k ^_^)
It's so true--and so sad--how little self-confidence many people have. But from a marketing standpoint, it's probably not such a bad thing to have the "I like anime so I'm cool" attitude all over the place. If only we could stop lumping all anime together and recognize that, yes, genres exist over there, too... IMO, "intelligent" anime--I mean, just a little more engaging than Yu-Gi-Oh!--probably will never do any better than the average art house film over here. Thinking while being entertained just doesn't appeal to a lot of people, whether it's anime or anything else. -Miagi |
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king_micah
 Posts: 994 Location: OSU |
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This is taken from anime academy, go there and do them service to see the photos http://www.animeacademy.com/anime101/Theory_of_Fanboy/anime101.html
Stage One: "True Noob" The state of only recently having learned of anime through DBZ. This stage is further broken down into the following subgroups: "The Damned" - Refuse to watch any other show. They are lost causes. Avoid conversation at all cost. "Cartoon Network's Bitch" - Will watch shows on CN but refuse to branch out into the vast amount of anime out there. "Receptive"- Easily find that there is a vast majority of anime out there and have enough interest to seek out more. The problem is the first group. Too many exist. Same with the second, but fortuity they can become the third and grow. The needs to be a tradtional anime network so that much of the good anime, like blackjack thats older, can be seen. Truth is many of the n00bs are mid teens. They don't have the money or time to get the dvds. Thus they remain ignorant. |
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Kagato
 Posts: 156 |
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Unfortunately,the majority are The Damned.I have not yet seen receptive fan besides myself,and the damned are ignorant DBZ fools with an
obsession of violence and fighting.I can not wait until DBZ is cancelled! |
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SkullKnight
 Posts: 317 Location: Deep South |
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I started out by being receptive to all kinds of anime (started with GITS), but then I found myself watching cn for the matter of cost. I have dwindled in the purchasing of new dvds primarily cause what I bought was aired a year later. ala kenshin and trigun, now soon soultaker. How do you justify it you ask? well I do admit I don't like the editing on tv so...
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Laughing Hyena
 Posts: 136 Location: Oxnard in sunny Cailforina |
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Wow, that sounds like a usual conversation I have with people in the comic book store. Too true which is pretty sad. What I feel which is really upsetting is that the new fans have a lack to watch older animation. I grew up with Popeye which probably explains my love of Kimba the White Lion and Lupin the III these days. I've also seen the Theory of Fanboy posted before on this fourm too.
Yes, I've seen alot of the Damned ones. One wonders what will happen to this group once DBZ stops airing. |
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JETBLACK87
 Posts: 1073 |
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here is my story for those who care.
I hated DBZ for a bit...than liked it alot("Cartoon Network's Bitch")...than saw Cowboy Bebop on and night, and realized there was more to anime than DBZ. and I have been buying what I could get and looking for better stuff. now I hate DBZ along with other anime, but I'm am still looking for more good anime. |
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Anlushac11
Posts: 268 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA |
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LOL Youre showing your age there. I grew up watching those and later Voltron with the Lions and Battle of the Planets(something something Gatchaman?) The majority of the new generation dont seem to appreciate a good plot, storyline, and character development. They want instant gratification in the form of violence. I also dont understand the fascination these days with the bad guys. After seeing how ruthless and cold blooded knives is to here someone say that they love Knives, they think Knives is soo cool Im like you do realize Knives wants all humans dead? The same with people rooting for Vicious. I dont get it. |
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Mr Mania
 Posts: 581 Location: UK |
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I've got to disagree with your last point there,bad guys are often fairly cool.Some of the best characters throughout movie history have been bad guys.Liking a bad guy doesnt mean you like them as a person but simply that you think they are a good character.A classic example is Darth Vader whos a very cool bad guy,well at least he was until his image was tarnished in episodes 1 and 2.Another more recent Star Wars example is Darth Maul,the only cool thing about episode 1.Anti heroes are also often popular such as Snake Pliscin.
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v1cious
 Posts: 6277 Location: Houston, TX |
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"(Me) Ok, so how about picking up classier titles which don't use violence and nudity gratuiously to get more ratings, but do so within the context of the actual story. There's Fist of the North Star, Black Jack, Getter Robo...."
Fist Of The North Star? did we watch the same show here? |
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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Well, I always liked Vicious as a character because he represented how heartless humanity is willing to become in order to get what it wants.
At least that's how I always saw it. It's sort of like how I preferred Vegeta to Goku (back before all this transmogrifying or whatever business. It just got too ridiculous to even be amusing after a while) . Goku "just wants to do the right thing". Vegeta has an agenda and a point to prove. A selfish point about his machismo, but a point all the same. Villains and anti-heroes today just seem to have more going on. It's like I've often said "It's easy to creat conflict with dysfunction". It's when you create fully functional characters and then create a worthwhile story with them (see "Ah! My Goddess"- Keichi and Belldandy as an example) that a truly good story is formed. But that's a wee bit off topic, isn't it? On topic, I have to say that yes; there is a problem with the new crop of fans. Actually, "fan" (derived from the root word "fanatic") might be too strong a term. "Interested individuals". That works. We, as fans by and large, became as such because we got hooked. We've found an idea, an item, a lifestyle if you will, that suits our idea of what we want. The interested inviduals have found a new form of entertainment and many times do not have the access to information that will truly help broaden their horizons. Yes, there are many good online anime review sites (ANN and Animefringe in particular) but the opinions come from seasoned veterans. This will probably offend Zac to no end, and I've done that plenty before and will probably do it much in the future and I apologize now because I'll have to do it later, but when an interested individual who catched Inu Yasha on AS each night makes their way to this site and then reads a review blasting it for being repetitive drivel that the creator (whom they've more than likely never heard of) crapped out on their coffee break and that they'd be better off watching a ten plus year old series they have no idea where to get *takes breath* it's a bit down-putting. Not that I agree or disagreed with what Zac said, and not that I didn't get that it was partially a joke, and not that I don't find him one of the best and most honest reviewers in anime fandom. What I'd propose ANN do is perhaps add a "newbie/interested individuals" column that is centered around expanding the horizons of people who would want to go further. Instead of throwing philosophy, ethics, history, and veteran rants at them, it would help explain the genres, the foundations, and the core ideals of anime fandom. A "Hitchhiker's Guide to Otakuism", so to speak. Heck, I'd gladly write it if people think I'm just spitballing and complaining. As for what the industry can do, besides keeping Animerica in print, is more television advertising to the captive audience. Chances are it wouldn't be too difficult for companies whose series CN is airing to get advertising time. Bandai, Pioneer, Tokyopop, ADV, Shopro/Viz, FUNImation, Media Blasters.... that sums up the bigger half of the major US distributors. If each one of them aired commercials for three mainstream type animes in their catalog that's 21 animes gaining massive publicity from people who want more. Key it in with a popular series the company already carries (Hellsing with Trigun, for instance) and you have exposure. Couple that with more previews per disc (and do actually route people through them on mainstream titles as opposed to putting them in extras. IE: Good idea for Evangelion or Gundam titles, bad idea for Mospeada or Area 88) and you have a growing base of people with expanded interests and tastes who can ultimately become fans. |
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king_micah
Posts: 994 Location: OSU |
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Hey, I am an Ikari Gendo fan. There are few of us, but we like the complicated man too easily dismissed as a bastard villain. I also know alot of old school Gundam villain fans too. The thing about a good villain is that they can be alot more complex and more fun then the Hero's. Shinji is mama's boy, whose daddy didn't love him. Gendo is a man scarred by the loss of his wife, so scarred he will risk the destruction of the world just to be with her. Typical Gundam heros are perfect youths, the villians are more complex caught between the senses of honor, duty, and decency.
In reguards to Trigun, I guess some people see Vash as a bit of a whiny hippie, while Vash is the cold badass so many fangirls like. I know many fangirls into anime for years who have massive and, to a hetro male like me, scary yaori fanfics with the badguys. |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3817 Location: Montreal |
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LOL! I guess it can't be helped... the older generation will always moan about how "the kids don't understand anything nowadays"
 In the intemporal words of I-don't-remember-who, "the kids are alright".
You know, that's a really good idea. But the question is... since you're a veteran anime fan yourself, CAN you write a column for newbies? It's kind of a catch-22. Writing such an article would requires a newbie's view, but a newbie wouldn't be able to write an article meant to expand other newbies' horizons. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Crayest, that would be an interesting column. I write one like it over at www.moviepoopshoot.com, called 'Hot Miso', that's intended to be for newbies. I have an 'anime that doesn't suck' and 'anime that does suck' section, news, and reviews. The site has no other anime content. ANN has a lot of that stuff already, so I'm curious what kind of content you'd fill a whole column with already.
I'm all for it, but I'm not all for watering down, dumbing down or flat out lying in reviews just so some kid who wanders on to the site after watching Inu-Yasha won't get mad at me for not liking his favorite new show. I'm not, nor should anyone, post positive reviews of something because it's popular and newbies might read the review. I don't like Inuyasha. Lots of people do. It happens sometimes. -Z |
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Craeyst Raygal
Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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Well Dan, I'm not really that much of a veteran. ^_^()
Yeah, I got into anime long ago when a friend of mine showed me a tape of Project A-ko (I was 11 and it was the second time I'd ever seen nudity, or near nudity in a sexual way, in animation. The first being The Last Unicorn, one of my mother's favorites.) but when he moved away I had no connection to the otaku world. It wasn't until the Toonami airing of Gundam Wing that I was re-introduced. (scary to think that a person can go from knows what something is to knowing what I know in three years, huh?) No, I'm not really much of a newbie. But I am qualified to write columns. I'm already a published columnist in RPM Racing News out of Latrobe, PA. (Ghost wrote for my Dad and was accredited for it: His column's name was Race Fan's Attic aka Bat's in the Belfry, later changed to Northcoast Newz) As for speaking to newbies, it's really just a matter of staying relevant to them and keeping the subject matter from getting too dense. A full documentary on what Anno was really trying to say isn't really necessary when trying to explain why Evangelion would be a good series to see. And Zac, don't change a thing. Reviews shouldn't lie, and you didn't. Inu Yasha does have a lot of "seen it" content inside. If it's flawed, point out the flaws. If it has good points, elaborate on them. Then arbitrarily weigh the good points versus the flaws and decide whether you'd recommend it. That's reviewing. Lot's of people enjoy Bond films and they rarely review well because of repetitive content and the fact that they're little more than male fantasies come to life. |
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