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Are Westerners' perception of anime too... off?




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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:18 am Reply with quote
I'm talking about the perception of anime from fans themselves, not how others view fans. Many columns and articles like Your Ultimate Guide to Anime Ending Credits Part III on ANN strive to educate fans about what the anime industry in Japan is all about, a business, a form of entertainment, and perceived in a very professional light by those who are involved in its creation, production and promotion. Even conventions (or lack thereof) in Japan simply exist solely to provide marketing and advertisement.

But many North American fans seem oblivious to this, or have been for the past few decades of fandom. There is nothing wrong with this, and you know the saying "ignorance is bliss." I don't want to evoke the term ignorance in a negative way. Fandom has a real and positive place in North American culture and society and the anime fan is certainly a unique and enthusiastic person. It's given rise to the huge creative world of cosplay, it has driven for cross cultural interest in media and entertainment in the West. But what about fans themselves? Do they appreciate anime in such a way that when they discover how anime is viewed in their "holy land" of Japan they might come away disappointed or jaded? I remember my pre-jaded days but also I still see myself as the same old awe-inspired fan. Just one who is also interested in the businessy and purely professional aspects of anime production.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:33 am Reply with quote
I am assuming you are focusing on the "otaku phenomena" where a good portion of anime is in fact produced by what can be described as "social outcasts" that throw money at anime projects, this includes the usual "guy who loves 2d girls over 3d" the "fujoshi group" as well as a number of sub groups that still can be labeled as Anime Otaku.

For some groups in the United States, being a "social outcast" can unwittingly create bonds for those that share otherwise fringe interests, so what may be seen in Japan as a "following that is to be frowned upon" is yet another avenue for social interaction for western fans.

There is no doubt a disconnect between how Western and Japanese cultures view the "otaku culture" but there are always missing views between cultures even if there are rough parallels and cross culture fandoms.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:36 am Reply with quote
Like with anything fans tend to romanticize things to various extents. There's no shortage of fans who lie on the extreme end of that. They might think that anime is a mainstream thing in Japan and thus assume any Japanese person they meet is an anime fan. They might think that those who work on anime are on par with Hollywood celebs when in fact they're overworked and underpaid. They might think anime is a medium dedicated to originality and deep messages so they won't accept shows made to sell merchandise.

Anime is still an exotic animal to some due to either ignorance or refusing to accept the truth. I suppose that's okay within reasonable levels but if some one flips their lid because you dared to compare sacred anime to childish American cartoons then they need a reality check.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:07 pm Reply with quote
In this thread I also want to clarify I'm not neglecting the Japanese who are anime fans, they certainly exist too. I think they are enthusiastic and loving of their hobby in the same way as anime fans in other parts of the world. Anime is a medium with its own very unique set of qualities that draw its viewers in and keeps satisfying longtime fans. It is more than simply animation that happens to be made in Japan. It is also self-serving because as Western fans become increasingly more familiar with the many Japanese cultural quirks present in anime, it must do so anyway to appeal to those same Japanese fans who will get bored quickly of the same old cliches and storytelling.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:34 pm Reply with quote
I am not really sure what you are asking, but if you want to know if I was disappointed and disenchanted when I realized that anime was a business in Japan the answer to that would be "no." That is because I have always known that it is a business.

One reason for that is probably that I was a lot older than most fans when I started watching anime and I had a lot of time to realize that all entertainment is a business.
There are creators who love their work, possibly most of them, and do it for artistic reasons but we fans would never get to see it if not for the anime business.

I think that I should stop now in case I am misunderstanding and going down the wrong path.
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
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Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Hello Past!
Past wrote:
But what about fans themselves? Do they appreciate anime in such a way that when they discover how anime is viewed in their "holy land" of Japan they might come away disappointed or jaded?

I like to think that an appreciation of an artform is not predicated on being able to grasp its means of creation—as this will always be somewhat of a mystery to those without the requisite talents—but instead on being able to place works amongst others of the same kind, to gradually see the distinguishing features of complex or subtle pieces.

While knowing the sobering and tedious details of the anime industry may help with respecting the feats we see on-screen, I think this comes secondary to simply watching enough anime to know one's way around the subculture.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:28 pm Reply with quote
Touma wrote:
I am not really sure what you are asking, but if you want to know if I was disappointed and disenchanted when I realized that anime was a business in Japan the answer to that would be "no." That is because I have always known that it is a business.
I don't think theres any misunderstanding, you just seem to have had a unique exposure to anime. But what about other fans you know? Were they oblivious in the beginning or still are? I think it's not necessarily being oblivious, it's not really caring to know what all goes into producing anime. Some people just want to let the magic happen, so to speak. Anime could be produced by faeries that live in a giant oak tree for all they care, and that's fine.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:00 pm Reply with quote
Past wrote:
I don't think theres any misunderstanding, you just seem to have had a unique exposure to anime. But what about other fans you know? Were they oblivious in the beginning or still are? I think it's not necessarily being oblivious, it's not really caring to know what all goes into producing anime. Some people just want to let the magic happen, so to speak. Anime could be produced by faeries that live in a giant oak tree for all they care, and that's fine.

Ignorance on how a media is produced is very common even outside the realms of anime fandom, most people don't know the details of how local television or movies are produced in made let alone a media that is made in a country from effectively the other side of the globe.

The real question is which part of the ignorance are you referring to.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:52 pm Reply with quote
Let's stop talking about ignorance. It is a bad word. I want to focus on what kind of examples of overzealous dedicated fans you might know of. Let's say they are interviewing for a job at a company in Japan that is involved in anime production or a magazine publisher. Would they be rejected right away because of seeming too emotionally attached to the fandom?

Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:05 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I want to focus on what kind of examples of overzealous dedicated fans you might know of.

Except that is swinging the pendulum in the complete opposite direction where a person might honestly understand actual social nuances because they spent an extensive amount of time researching Japanese culture.

Are we talking about the "average fan" or are we talking about Niponophiles?
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:16 am Reply with quote
FenixFiesta wrote:
Quote:
I want to focus on what kind of examples of overzealous dedicated fans you might know of.

Except that is swinging the pendulum in the complete opposite direction where a person might honestly understand actual social nuances because they spent an extensive amount of time researching Japanese culture.
I think Zin5ki kind of addressed this by pointing out one can be well versed in the quirky cultural references in anime without paying attention to the mechanics behind anime creation. I think of those aspects as two entirely different things and what I meant by dedicated fans might be those that choose not to acknowledge anime as it's perceived in Japan as just a business or product of free enterprise.
Zin5ki wrote:
Hello Past!

Hi there!
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:18 pm Reply with quote
Touma wrote:
I am not really sure what you are asking, but if you want to know if I was disappointed and disenchanted when I realized that anime was a business in Japan the answer to that would be "no." That is because I have always known that it is a business.

Reinforcing that perception is the large role piracy plays among Western anime viewers, especially younger ones. It's easier to rationalize that money plays no role in anime production if you're not paying to contribute to it in the first place.

I was in my fifties when I started watching anime and had spent a few years in television research back in the 1980s. I had no illusions about the role of money in media production.
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