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Animerican14



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 869
Location: Saint Louis, MO

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:13 pm Reply with quote
*nods.... nods.... nods.... nods...*

It's always great to hear some more professional gushing about Madoka, hah. I'm kind of wondering, though-- hearing the anticipation of Justin regarding the final four episodes of Madoka, something is telling me that you're either putting a self-imposed moratorium on viewing or aren't aware of how all the episodes are on Crunchy Roll by now. I'd understand more in Zac's case, considering that he wants to keep the viewing experience resh.... I guess part of the wait for the BD/DVD rather than seeing the streams has to do with how physical releases fit more smoothly into your day, how the picture quality is better, how there's a dub, etc.?

That said, I'm kind of surprised to still hear praises being sung of Kyubey's voice actress. It seems that it's only been Zac and Justin that I've been hearing a lot of love for the English performance.... at least on the PM Wiki and some of the Madoka-specific threads here, the only Madoka community discussions outside of the main FB page that I hang around, it seems to garner the most of a "meh" reaction. Admittedly, it doesn't leave a particularly strong impression on me, either (or at least, it's been fine-to-good... but very much not the "strongest performance" for my tastes). By contrast... I think Sarah Williams absolutely nailed Sayaka; been loving her since volume 1, and she does so much more with the second volume. For me, that is definitely not "stereotypical-anime-girl-voice."

And about Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood ... aww, that's kind of sad. I mean, I'm perfectly understanding of how big of a hurdle the first dozen epsiodes are-- they are easily the most tiresome episodes to get through, not only retreading what's been done over twice in both tv and manga but doing it sloppily in a very through-the-motions sort of way, removing much of the drama and emotional requiem for one character in particular when he died. However... when things get to the point where the manga clearly begins to show its influence-- and really, it's only within a few more episodes after those first dozen are over with!-- it becomes much better paced with quite a number of different directions. Whenever you guys have tried to start up the series, have you always gone back to the beginning? Because.... yeah, maybe you should-- or at least could have, if you're truly not backing down from the position of never going back to FMA-- find/found an episode guide or something that says "MANGA-EXCLUSIVE STORY BEGINS HERE."

If I ever get to collecting the physical releases of FMA, I believe that what I'll do is to get the first 26 episodes of the original series and then get all volumes of Brotherhood on Blu-ray (sans the first 12 episode set). Yeah... that might turn out quite swell...
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:27 pm Reply with quote
The ending of the first FMA wrapped up well? The last three episodes spend the vast majority of it's time setting up a movie whose best scene was the opening credits (not the opening itself which involved Ed wearing a fish bowl on his head). The first FMA series peaked during the Greed arc.
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Razzuel



Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:54 pm Reply with quote
I really enjoyed The Sacred Star of Milos. No, it's not an original story, but it didn't have to be for me; Brotherhood satisfied everything I ever wanted out of FMA. However, I thought the movie was a ton of fun and looked fantastic on Blu-ray.

As for why you thought the wolves looked weird, that's because you didn't watch Brotherhood past episode 13.

That's a shame that both of you don't care about FMA enough anymore to at least start Brotherhood from the point where it diverges from the first series, since Brotherhood is so, so damn good. It's incredible and there's not enough shows out there made with the same quality as Brotherhood.

Charred Knight wrote:
The ending of the first FMA wrapped up well? The last three episodes spend the vast majority of it's time setting up a movie whose best scene was the opening credits (not the opening itself which involved Ed wearing a fish bowl on his head). The first FMA series peaked during the Greed arc.


Yeah, the ending of the first FMA was absolutely terrible, and the movie only made it worse.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:00 pm Reply with quote
I actually quite enjoyed the ending to the first FMA series, including the movie.

But I'd recommend Brotherhood, nevertheless. It's very rewarding.
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Mr Sinister



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 133
Location: NY

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:01 pm Reply with quote
Madoka got me when they dropped the new ending. Really made me sit back and go "Wow, this is gunna be great"

As for FMA... yea, same as most people. It's really good and rewarding. The last like 20 episodes are just nonstop rising action/climax that is pretty badass (The FUHRER!! OMG THE FUHRER!!). Just take a break for a while and come back to it in like a year or so, you'll enjoy it.
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JesuOtaku
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:36 pm Reply with quote
In regards to Zac's summation of the theme of Madoka Magica and happiness and empathy and all that: wwwwwwwwwwell, wait til the ending. ^_~ I'm happy there is more to it than that, anyway. You're half-right. That final third shifts the paradigm as much as that second third did.

I don't know what's "not hooking you" about Brotherhood, but...I mean, it is entirely possible that the direction is super-hacky in that show. The first 13 episodes are unbearable both because they're rushed and you have a *direct comparison* to the same events in the original show being executed ten times better.

So after that the show DOES get better. Way better. Buuuuuut even right up until the end, and I watched the whole thing: pretty hacky. The music is almost never appropriate, there's a lot of "EXPOSITION NARRATION" and shot-reverse-shot execution whenever there's not an action scene in the show, the comedy is rarely funny, often painfully unfunny...the best thing about Brotherhood is the source material it was based on, and how strong that manga's writing could be, at points. (And it has weaknesses too.)

But from an artistic standpoint, Brotherhood is reeeeeally dry. I know the animation's gorgeous because Bones got a budget on that bitch, etc etc., but it is suuuuuper-dry artistically. And you're right: that first iteration, even if it had flaws or wasn't perfect, or diverged from the source material, or whatever, was *solid.* It didn't need to be retold. It's hard to care about a retelling in the same medium when the first go-round was so good. Jes sayin.

Oh, and just noticed this:

Quote:
The last like 20 episodes are just nonstop rising action/climax that is pretty badass (The FUHRER!! OMG THE FUHRER!!). Just take a break for a while and come back to it in like a year or so, you'll enjoy it.


Yeah, the entire last 15 episodes or so of Brotherhood is a climax. Honestly, I got really bored and frustrated with it. I wouldn't call that a good thing, necessarily. There were moments in those 15 episodes I was absolutely *enthralled* but also long strings of time I was just burnt out. It is a literal frame-by-frame translation of a manga to screen. If you like that kinda thing, cool, but yeah, I got really fed up with it after being so impressed with the skillful adaptation of the 2003 series. ^^;


Last edited by JesuOtaku on Fri May 04, 2012 7:42 pm; edited 4 times in total
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:38 pm Reply with quote
Mr Sinister wrote:
Madoka got me when they dropped the new ending. Really made me sit back and go "Wow, this is gunna be great"

As for FMA... yea, same as most people. It's really good and rewarding. The last like 20 episodes are just nonstop rising action/climax that is pretty badass (The FUHRER!! OMG THE FUHRER!!). Just take a break for a while and come back to it in like a year or so, you'll enjoy it.


I absolutely agree with you on Fuhrer. I think he is one of the most complex characters.

I concur on that Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood is great. I am disappointed that Justin and Zac have not given it a chance. I like both FMA series, but Brotherhood is so much deeper, and rewarding is such a great word to describe it.
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willag
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:43 pm Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:
But from an artistic standpoint, Brotherhood is reeeeeally dry. I know the animation's gorgeous because Bones got a budget on that bitch, etc etc., but it is suuuuuper-dry artistically. And you're right: that first iteration, even if it had flaws or wasn't perfect, or diverged from the source material, or whatever, was *solid.* It didn't need to be retold. It's hard to care about a retelling in the same medium when the first go-round was so good. Jes sayin.

I agree completely. I really liked the first anime when I watched it (I even loved the ending of the series by itself - I would have been fine without the movie). I've tried watching Brotherhood, but each time I try I get the same, "Yeeeaaaah, I don't need to watch this series," feeling. The first go-round was so good, and I don't feel the need to see a retelling even if it's more true to the manga material. Maybe some day I'll feel different, but for now I'm satisfied with just the first series.

Now back to listening to more of the podcast.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:47 pm Reply with quote
I can totally understand where Justin and Zac were coming from. The first twelve episodes of Brotherhood are pretty damn bad, even more so when you compare them to the same episodes in the older show. They are an extreme chore to get through.

I can understand a show needing a few episodes to get going. I also hate it when someone drops a show after only watching an episode or two. However, there is no reason the show should have been that bad for that long. If they were going to do the episodes half assed, they should have just skipped them altogether. The show was clearly made for existing fans of the series anyway.

I think I may try to watch the series again from a later point at some time in the future.
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:04 pm Reply with quote
I feel that many people who have not watched all of FMA: Brotherhood think that this series is SIMPLY a retelling of the first series. The first fifth is retelling (yes, rushed; but why make the same first 26 episodes from the first series), but after that Brotherhood is a DIFFERENT story and not a RETELLING.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you CANNOT judge a series if you have only seen a fifth of it.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:05 pm Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:

But from an artistic standpoint, Brotherhood is reeeeeally dry. I know the animation's gorgeous because Bones got a budget on that bitch, etc etc., but it is suuuuuper-dry artistically. And you're right: that first iteration, even if it had flaws or wasn't perfect, or diverged from the source material, or whatever, was *solid.* It didn't need to be retold. It's hard to care about a retelling in the same medium when the first go-round was so good. Jes sayin.


The problem is that artistically the first anime is hit or miss, lose the bat and kill the third base coach. Some of the flashbacks where so awful that I actually laughed at Scar's past. The anime makes me agree with Dante, there's not some cosmic force that actually balances the good with the bad. There's no reason why Ed and Al should stop looking for a spoiler[ new way to get back.] In one scene of the movie Ed complains that Noah trying to go to Amestris is "running away from the problem", the problem being the spoiler[prejudice that will eventually lead to over 100,000 Roma being killed by Nazi Germany. Noah has to leave Germany, and most likely Europe, so it doesn't matter if she flees to America or Amestris.]
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dragonrider_cody



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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:11 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
I feel that many people who have not watched all of FMA: Brotherhood think that this series is SIMPLY a retelling of the first series. The first fifth is retelling (yes, rushed; but why make the same first 26 episodes from the first series), but after that Brotherhood is a DIFFERENT story and not a RETELLING.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you CANNOT judge a series if you have only seen a fifth of it.


Actually, I'm pretty Sure that everyone know that. There is also some truth to your claims. However, you can hardly blame someone for loosing interest after a dozen plus episodes of mediocrity. Those episodes could have been much better than they were. The fact that the show gets better doesn't change the fact that the beginning was terrible.

Besides, there are lots of anime fans that drop shows after and episode or two. I think giving Brotherhood twelve episodes is much more fair than that.
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invalidname



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 724
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:17 pm Reply with quote
So, on to the guest: what a great set of stories Jan had. This was really good at getting into the nitty-gritty of the production process, and the fact that this outsider could play all these roles in the industry and get sent all around Asia is really fascinating.

I didn't quite place the downturn that Jan talked about in the 99-00 period, the one that drove her back to the States. That seems like it would be well after the implosion of Japan's real estate bubble. Was it related to the general downturn across Asia in the later part of that decade? I recall that was when Asian demand for petroleum dropped so much, I filled up for 70 cents/gallon in suburban Atlanta in mid-'99 because the US was the only market where the economy hadn't tanked.

Also, very surprised to hear such a shoutout for JAFAX, the anime con in my little town of Grand Rapids. Haven't gone in the three years I've been here, but now I feel I gotta check it out.
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:27 pm Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:
angelmcazares wrote:
I feel that many people who have not watched all of FMA: Brotherhood think that this series is SIMPLY a retelling of the first series. The first fifth is retelling (yes, rushed; but why make the same first 26 episodes from the first series), but after that Brotherhood is a DIFFERENT story and not a RETELLING.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you CANNOT judge a series if you have only seen a fifth of it.


Actually, I'm pretty Sure that everyone know that. There is also some truth to your claims. However, you can hardly blame someone for loosing interest after a dozen plus episodes of mediocrity. Those episodes could have been much better than they were. The fact that the show gets better doesn't change the fact that the beginning was terrible.

Besides, there are lots of anime fans that drop shows after and episode or two. I think giving Brotherhood twelve episodes is much more fair than that.



I absolutely agree that the first few episodes of any series either make you drop it or keep watching it. 12 episodes should be more than enough to sold you on an anime. That being said, those who had watched the first FMA should have expected to see a retelling of some events at the beginning of Brotherhood.

I did not see anything terrible with the first 12 episodes of Brotherhood. They did a good job setting the mood for the rest of the series. For me the problem is that those who had already watched the first series had unrealistic expectations. If the first 12 had low quality (which for me did not), I wouldn't fault Bones for trying to save some money.
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willag
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:12 pm Reply with quote
Okay, poor word choice. I know that Brotherhood isn't a retelling of the story and that only the first 12 or so episodes cover similar material before diverging. Regardless, I just can't get into those 12 episodes - I barely finished the first. I've read split decisions about skipping ahead and just starting at 13, because while the first 12 episodes covers material we've already seen there are still enough differences from the original that it's probably a good idea to watch 'em. Thinking I might get into it more, I still tried watching from episode 13 and... no luck. Yeah, I just wasn't feeling it. I even skipped ahead to a later episode to try and hype myself up in wanting to get to that point... nope. The original series had me gripped from the beginning. Brotherhood, meh, just not. Like I said, I'm quite satisfied with the original. I don't feel any driving need to see the new one, which has failed to grab me on several tries. Not even the animation for some really sweet fight scenes has got me interested enough in getting over the hurdle. Maybe some day, but not right now.
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