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Shaterri



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 172
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:59 pm Reply with quote
It's not just dubs that come out of that (general) area, either - I was surprised and delighted a few years ago to discover that a couple of series I had a strong interest in (Denno Coil and Kaiba) had not only received official subtitled releases in Australia courtesy of Siren, but that they were still for sale and could be shipped overseas. As someone who tries to hem as legit as possible on the stuff they watch (my only lapse in the last couple of years was Wakfu - we all have our weaknesses), having another avenue for legal releases was an unexpected pleasure.
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ActionJacksin



Joined: 16 Dec 2012
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:02 pm Reply with quote
Interesting to read about the release of Animax dubs.

Yeah, many them sound hilariously amateurish, be it the wonky stiffness of their pre-Funimation Yu Yu Hakusho dub (staring the Americanized EUGENE Urameshi no less), their bluntly translated Gundam ZZ dub ("STUPID ADULTS!!"), or their dub of K-on that sounds like it was recorded in a studio that wasn't properly sound-proofed.

But then they do slip out some real gems, like their surprisingly competent (and some may say superior) dub of Inuyasha. But of course, there's ordeal of trying to find these damn things, especially in their entirety. I'd say some holy grails would be their dub of Future Boy Conan, as well as finding the complete dubbed version of Urusei Yatsura and Ranma 1/2 (both of which I've heard clips of and they sound typically stiff and wooden, as per a lot these dubs).

Oh, and if I could nominate the worst South East Asian dub I've heard (be it Singaporean, Philippine, what have you), that honor would have to go to the Singaporean dub of Digimon. Not a single native speaker on that thing, and it shows.
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chronoclast



Joined: 29 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:03 pm Reply with quote
Speaking of the Sunrise shows Funi/Sentai licensed, why was Planetes left out?

Yeah we're all aware the show bombed when Bandai had it but so did Infinite Ryvius and Zegapain which Sentai got. I'm surprised they didn't also get Planetes.
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doubleO7



Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:45 pm Reply with quote
About Manga getting a few of the Macross series, I've heard afew theories on that.

One being that HG simply was really only concerned about the main/original Robotech/Macross series at the time and simply didn't give much of a damn about the distant, loosely connected followup that didn't necessarily fit into the overall Robotech continuity (Plus) and an aborted, non-canon sequel (Macross II).

The other being the fact that Harmony Gold was pretty much dormant during a good part of the 90's. There was a period where they really didn't do much of anything, and that Manga took that opportunity to pick up Plus and Mac2 hoping MG wouldn't care, which they obviously didn't.

Obviously, neither of these are true anymore, if they ever once were. HG has since reaffirmed their hold on (or rather, their intent to sue regarding) everything Macross related that makes its way overseas, including Plus and M2.
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vashna



Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:40 pm Reply with quote
I'm a huge fan of Planetes, since I'm an amateur astronomer. There are few other opportunities to see a piece of fiction that depicts future space travel as actually realistic as well as focusing on the very real, pressing problem of space debris. I know it wasn't the best seller around, but I wish it received some promotion here too.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:14 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Funimation and Sentai pretty much rescued every title that Bandai Entertainment had the rights to except for all the different Gundam series and Eureka Seven.
That "pretty much" covers quite a bit of territory outside just Gundam/E7. Among them are various "cute" titles like Galaxy Angel and Magical Meow Meow Taruto, other non-E7 BONES items like Scrapped Princess, Mars Daybreak, and Star Driver, major KyoAni titles like Haruhi and Lucky Star, old/expired(?) stuff like Don't Leave Me Alone Daisy, Fancy Lala, and Haunted Junction, and Gonzo titles like Melty Lancer, Blue Submarine #6, and Yukikaze (ETA till Funi picks them up?).

None* of Bandai's harem/romcom/fanservice titles (which of course weren't made by Sunrise) have been rescued either, including Angel Tales, Please Teacher/Twins, Kannagi, Stratos 4, Hayate the Combat Butler, Pilot Candidate, and last but not least, Saber Marionette J.

*not counting Funi's earlier Love Hina pickup

Of course, some of the above series and others are welcome to stay on the scrap heap of history. Why watch Arjuna again when we can watch more ideologically consistent Captain Planet reruns instead?
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SahgoDN



Joined: 09 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:19 pm Reply with quote
My favorite South East Asian dub was Hayate the Combat Butler! Sure it had shaky performances here and there, but I was surprised with how much effort was (apparently) put into it. The lead performances were more hit than miss, and some adaptation choices were very ingenious (especifically, turning the Norio Wakamoto-styled narrator into a sarcastic British gentleman-styled narrator. So different, yet so perfectly fitting!). Though I usually condemn the tactic, I wouldn't have minded at all if Bandai had included it on their Hayate DVDs. I wonder if those Animax Asia dubs are negotiable when it comes to licensing.

I like when they provide a dub for something that was heavily edited in the West -- the one example that pops to mind is the Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters Singapore dub. Very rough around the edges and full of literal translations, but useful to see how the anime would've sounded in English without 4Kids. And yeah, main characters sound like surfers, Abridged Series joke, yadda yadda, let's do better than that, yes?

Speaking of which, I heard Viz Media's Corrector Yui DVDs have a dub made in Singapore too. I could never find a clip of it (or the DVDs, in fact), so I can't be sure. Is it true? Has anyone heard it? Is it any good?

Sometimes I wonder if these dubs are the so called "international" English dubs that are used to translate the series to other languages. Would make sense with Digimon.
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Key
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:29 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, Odex's name is practically an obscenity when it comes to English dubbing; if I had to ever make a list of the worst non-hentai English dubs I've ever heard, at least two or three Odex dubs would make the Top 5, almost certainly. You can probably toss Zipang into the list Justin gave, although it had at least a few decent performances.
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doubleO7



Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:58 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
Quote:
Funimation and Sentai pretty much rescued every title that Bandai Entertainment had the rights to except for all the different Gundam series and Eureka Seven.
That "pretty much" covers quite a bit of territory outside just Gundam/E7. Among them are various "cute" titles like Galaxy Angel and Magical Meow Meow Taruto, other non-E7 BONES items like Scrapped Princess, Mars Daybreak, and Star Driver, major KyoAni titles like Haruhi and Lucky Star, old/expired(?) stuff like Don't Leave Me Alone Daisy, Fancy Lala, and Haunted Junction, and Gonzo titles like Melty Lancer, Blue Submarine #6, and Yukikaze (ETA till Funi picks them up?).


Discotek has already picked Blue Sub #6 up actually.
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bglassbrook



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:27 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
and Haunted Junction

So would a gag-dub actually be to play this one straight? Going to have to set this little stack of cash aside just in case any publisher tempts such a reality-bending feat.
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twinklestarex



Joined: 15 May 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:42 pm Reply with quote
Worst English dub from South East Asia?That title belongs to the English dub version of Spooky Kitaro 2007 Edition on Animax Asia which was dubbed in the Philippines. Laughing
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Sakura Shinguji



Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 162
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:16 pm Reply with quote
doubleO7 wrote:
About Manga getting a few of the Macross series, I've heard afew theories on that.

...

The other being the fact that Harmony Gold was pretty much dormant during a good part of the 90's. There was a period where they really didn't do much of anything, and that Manga took that opportunity to pick up Plus and Mac2 hoping MG wouldn't care, which they obviously didn't.


It's worth noting that Harmony Gold didn't file for the few Macross trademarks they do hold, and really start aggressively marketing and protecting Robotech, until 1999 (of all years). It's likely no coincidence that shortly thereafter was when AnimEigo reached an agreement with Harmony Gold to remaster and release the original Macross TV series (which they did in 2001), as well as ADV licensing and releasing all of Robotech on DVD (also in 2001).

Macross II and Macross Plus were able to be licensed not because of complacency on HG's part (though that's how they like to try and color that history to imply that they always had control and just didn't exert it), but because as far as Big West and Bandai Visual were concerned, there was no problem at the time. HG's license then and now only ever involved the original Macross series. And they weren't trying to bluster and take charge of the entire franchise via dubious backdoor methods until they started filing trademarks.

It's been hinted across teh Interwebs that Manga's unrestricted releases of II and Plus, all the way up through the initial DVD release of Plus in 1999, as well as Plus' obvious popularity Stateside, was what prompted HG's move to place a stranglehold on the property when they did.

The trademarks, incidentally, are a matter of public record, as you would expect. They can be found by searching the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office's database. So, no secret there.

As for the lawsuit, easily the worst thing that came of it is Harmony Gold's assertion that, despite the lawsuit retroactively nullifying Tatsunoko's ability to legally license Macross to them in the first place, they still claim the license is valid because a Japanese court decision doesn't affect them. Which is patently false, but who these days wants to spend the money to take them to court over it? No one. Maybe back during the boom years when everyone was spending money like crazy, but not now.

There's also been the implication that it's actually up to Studio Nue, Big West and Bandai Visual to assert the proper legal standing of that ruling, by using it to challenge the license on their end via forcing a retraction out of Tatsunoko, or simply by licensing, say, Plus, to someone else here in the U.S. as is their right to do so. If that's true, that's kind of great, but also really terrible, as the only thing that would prompt the involved parties to do that would be if they perceived that significant profit could come of clearing the way for someone in the U.S. to license a whole bunch of Macross stuff, which is just not the case these days with the domestic anime, etc., market being as contracted as it is.

The only problem then is HG's trademarks, which would have to be resolved in court here, via a legal challenge by a domestic licensee and/or one of the involved Japanese parties. Which, again, is unlikely to happen.

Alternately, as I've mentioned elsewhere before, there shouldn't be anything legally stopping the Japanese from licensing something like Macross Frontier to a U.S. studio, and said U.S. studio then overlaying the title card, calling the series something without the word "Macross" in the title, excising the word from the dub (if one were produced), and declining to include the name in the subtitles.

HG's trademarks do not specifically cover "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..." situations, barring a legal challenge, which they shouldn't want as that route would likely render their assertion of Macross ownership officially void as per the Japanese ruling. Nor do their trademarks specifically cover any derivative works; their standing license is only for the original series, after all.

Or, Bandai Visual could just start making more English-friendly Japanese releases and selling those releases directly here. As it is, there's nothing legally preventing anyone here from importing things like the Macross Plus Blu-ray box set on their own, or preventing Bandai Visual from including the dub for the OVA version and subtitles for the movie version as they did.

I think the statement that Justin received from HG's legal department is hilarious, because of how good it actually is. The whole statement, if you actually read it carefully, only specifically asserts legal ownership over the original series and any modified forms it may take (i.e. Robotech), while otherwise being generic enough to strongly imply as HG always has that anyone wanting to license derivative Macross works would still need to get HG's approval, which is not technically true, pending a real legal challenge to clarify that HG's original license was rendered invalid by the Japanese court cases a decade ago.
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pachy_boy



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1211
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:18 pm Reply with quote
I remember back in the day hearing from people everywhere how terrible the dub for Karin was. I buy the series, since I was a fan of the manga prior, watch the first episode in English and found it--not as terrible as they say it is. Actually, it wasn't "terrible" at all. At least nothing grated on my nerves, not like the dub for Kashimashi (could not get past the first episode on that one). I continue watching the series, ready to switch to Japanese, but instead ended up watching and enjoying it the whole way through in English. It may not have been stellar, but like most ADV and old Funimation dubs it was standard, meaning it was still listenable and got the job done. I scratch my head in why people continue to say how horrible it was.
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SpacemanHardy



Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:48 pm Reply with quote
pachy_boy wrote:
I remember back in the day hearing from people everywhere how terrible the dub for Karin was. I buy the series, since I was a fan of the manga prior, watch the first episode in English and found it--not as terrible as they say it is. Actually, it wasn't "terrible" at all. At least nothing grated on my nerves, not like the dub for Kashimashi (could not get past the first episode on that one). I continue watching the series, ready to switch to Japanese, but instead ended up watching and enjoying it the whole way through in English. It may not have been stellar, but like most ADV and old Funimation dubs it was standard, meaning it was still listenable and got the job done. I scratch my head in why people continue to say how horrible it was.


FINALLY, someone else who didn't think the Karin dub was the worst thing in the world. Very Happy

I have to admit, I don't think it's "good". In fact there are a few really terrible voices in it. But I've heard much MUCH worse in my day and I don't really get why everyone thinks it's complete and utter garbage.

"Bad", yeah sure. But "worst of all time"? Nah. That honor still belongs to Blue Water Studios and the abortion of a dub they gave Angel Links. Mad
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Mr Adventure



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 1598
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:37 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Yeah, Odex's name is practically an obscenity when it comes to English dubbing; if I had to ever make a list of the worst non-hentai English dubs I've ever heard, at least two or three Odex dubs would make the Top 5, almost certainly. You can probably toss Zipang into the list Justin gave, although it had at least a few decent performances.


Zipang's dub singlehandedly caused me to swear off English dubs FOREVER.
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