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EP. REVIEW: Bakemonogatari


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Gemnist



Joined: 10 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:06 am Reply with quote
Now THIS is a show that deserves a dub.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7527
Location: IL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:22 am Reply with quote
Quote:
It's another potential turnoff point that makes me wonder how this show ever became such a success

This line actually made me laugh quite a bit as I read it. Really? You really have to wonder? A very self-insertable protagonist being surrounded by a variety of beauties who all more-or-less want to at least share close physical contact? Surely you can figure out the key to Bakemonogatari's success.

I'll save my feelings on Bakemonogatari for the arcs that I feel truly deserve my disdain. Crab was my second favorite arc, so I'm more or less fine with how Bake starts. Just couldn't let the above quote slip out without comment.
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Selipse



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 205
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:25 am Reply with quote
Will reviews be released weekly?
I watched Paranoia Agent for the first time thanks to the reviews. I'll consider rewatching this if that's the case.
Are all Monogatari installments on Crunchyroll the TV version?

Gemnist wrote:
Now THIS is a show that deserves a dub.


It would also be one of the hardest to make.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 2706
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:40 am Reply with quote
I actually didn't remember that Kizu was briefly and quickly adapted at the beginning. Or rather, when I first saw it, I couldn't have realized what it was. Glad Oishi finally got a chance to elaborate on it.

Seeing for the second time definitely is different than the first. Knowing where the characters are going and what they've been through makes the signs ever more apparent than the first time around. This is my first time doing this, and it seems to be a good experience so far. Hopefully we get more of these, and beyond that, I'll definitely revisit some of my favorite titles as I had planned.
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rizuchan



Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 690
Location: Kansas
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:41 am Reply with quote
Hmmmm Bakemonogatari, huh. I want to like it, and I've tried watching it twice now but always get too bored around (minor spoiler just in case) spoiler[the monkey and snake arcs.]

Are there any other female anime fans here that enjoyed Bakemonogatari? It's gotten so much praise, and it seems like something I'd like, but I'm starting to think maybe I can't properly appreciate it while not caring for the fanservice/harem aspect.
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aifhak



Joined: 06 Jan 2016
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:00 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Quote:
It's another potential turnoff point that makes me wonder how this show ever became such a success

This line actually made me laugh quite a bit as I read it. Really? You really have to wonder? A very self-insertable protagonist being surrounded by a variety of beauties who all more-or-less want to at least share close physical contact? Surely you can figure out the key to Bakemonogatari's success.

I'll save my feelings on Bakemonogatari for the arcs that I feel truly deserve my disdain. Crab was my second favorite arc, so I'm more or less fine with how Bake starts. Just couldn't let the above quote slip out without comment.

and yet there are hundres of random harem/fanservice focused shows over the seasons that fail one after the other with only very few actually being something we'd remember, let alone become as much as a hit as this series.
So clearly there's something more to it than just that
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Makio-Kuta



Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:10 pm Reply with quote
@rizuchan I'm female and a huge fan of the whole Monogatari series. The fanservice can be a struggle at times (though not really in Bake compared to some other seasons), but I love enough of the other aspects of the show to keep coming back. For me the characters and the direction styles both draw me in. Each new season I'm excited to see what sort of presentation quirks the direction will take. I also enjoy the banter, but then Katanagatari is another show I love a lot, so NisiOisin's writing is good for me.

That being said, I have several friends who hate Monogatari and it's not one I ever recommend to people. It's very love it or hate it and if you can't get into Bakemonogatari (which is probably one of the most accessible portions of the show) I wouldn't try to force it.
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Clarste



Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Posts: 410
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:45 pm Reply with quote
aifhak wrote:
Megiddo wrote:
Quote:
It's another potential turnoff point that makes me wonder how this show ever became such a success

This line actually made me laugh quite a bit as I read it. Really? You really have to wonder? A very self-insertable protagonist being surrounded by a variety of beauties who all more-or-less want to at least share close physical contact? Surely you can figure out the key to Bakemonogatari's success.

I'll save my feelings on Bakemonogatari for the arcs that I feel truly deserve my disdain. Crab was my second favorite arc, so I'm more or less fine with how Bake starts. Just couldn't let the above quote slip out without comment.

and yet there are hundres of random harem/fanservice focused shows over the seasons that fail one after the other with only very few actually being something we'd remember, let alone become as much as a hit as this series.
So clearly there's something more to it than just that


Everyone thinks sex sells, but in truth it's honestly pretty bad at getting sales on its own. If that's all a show has going for it, then it might get watched but no one will remember it when it comes time to sell discs. Because they'll be watching the next totally interchangeable titty show instead. In fact, studies show that the sexier something is, the less likely people are to remember what it is. Presumably because they were distracted.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7527
Location: IL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:51 pm Reply with quote
aifhak wrote:

and yet there are hundres of random harem/fanservice focused shows over the seasons that fail one after the other with only very few actually being something we'd remember, let alone become as much as a hit as this series.
So clearly there's something more to it than just that

What? Very few harem series ever fail. Bake/Nise/etc didn't fail. Sword Art Online didn't fail. Infinite Stratos didn't fail. Oreimo didn't fail. Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere didn't fail. High School DxD didn't fail. To Love Ru/Darkness didn't fail. Haganai didn't fail. Sekirei didn't fail. Oregairu didn't fail... I can keep going if you want.

You honestly have to actually try to be bad as a harem show and fail like Akikan.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 2706
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:12 pm Reply with quote
^From the last year: Hybrid x Heart etc., Hundred, Girls beyond the Wasteland (maybe), Undefeated Bahamut Chronicle. That's not including reverse harems. I could probably name at least as many and probably more forgettable harems as you have named memorable and popular ones if I extended that further. As someone who has watched more of such forgettable harem fare than I care to admit, there are definitely harems that are forgettable. Also SAO isn't quite a harem given that one girl is definitely chosen in the middle of the series.

I would definitely agree that there is something more in Monogatari's popularity than just sex appeal, and for that matter DxD, Oregairu, and Haganai. Though DxD and To Love Ru do execute very well even within the realm of fanservice oriented shows, so for those especially fanservice is definitely a key selling point no doubt.


Last edited by zrnzle500 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gdmcrjunkie



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:19 pm Reply with quote
rizuchan wrote:
Are there any other female anime fans here that enjoyed Bakemonogatari? It's gotten so much praise, and it seems like something I'd like, but I'm starting to think maybe I can't properly appreciate it while not caring for the fanservice/harem aspect.


Female fan here. I've been following it as it gets released since the beginning. I don't like the fanservice (although at least it's not completely pointless) and don't care about the harem, but for me there's so much more to like.

About the arcs you find boring, maybe you don't like their characters and how they interact with Araragi? If it's not the characters but the banter itself that bores you you might as well give up cause you won't make it through Nisemonogatari.
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TasteyCookie



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 218
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:20 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
aifhak wrote:

and yet there are hundres of random harem/fanservice focused shows over the seasons that fail one after the other with only very few actually being something we'd remember, let alone become as much as a hit as this series.
So clearly there's something more to it than just that

What? Very few harem series ever fail. Bake/Nise/etc didn't fail. Sword Art Online didn't fail. Infinite Stratos didn't fail. Oreimo didn't fail. Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere didn't fail. High School DxD didn't fail. To Love Ru/Darkness didn't fail. Haganai didn't fail. Sekirei didn't fail. Oregairu didn't fail... I can keep going if you want.

You honestly have to actually try to be bad as a harem show and fail like Akikan.


Of the 156 shows that have sold over 10k average BD + DVD's since the year 2000, I count about 20 series that were Harems. And of those 20, 6 of them are Monogatari seasons... So yeah, harem shows notoriously sell very poorly.

Now harem Light Novels sell really well. But as far as their anime adaptations go, they do not sell well, and work as promotionary material anyways.

On topic though, my favorite thing about the Monogatari series is the fact that there is nothing like it. It's not a show that you can recommend to people because it's completely unique, which is it's biggest selling point but also it's biggest fault.
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Clarste



Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Posts: 410
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:35 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
aifhak wrote:

and yet there are hundres of random harem/fanservice focused shows over the seasons that fail one after the other with only very few actually being something we'd remember, let alone become as much as a hit as this series.
So clearly there's something more to it than just that

What? Very few harem series ever fail. Bake/Nise/etc didn't fail. Sword Art Online didn't fail. Infinite Stratos didn't fail. Oreimo didn't fail. Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere didn't fail. High School DxD didn't fail. To Love Ru/Darkness didn't fail. Haganai didn't fail. Sekirei didn't fail. Oregairu didn't fail... I can keep going if you want.

You honestly have to actually try to be bad as a harem show and fail like Akikan.


For every one you mention there are half a dozen more that you probably don't even remember. Which is the point. Sure, you can cherry pick the few that succeed, but even optimistically assuming that's about one success a year, those are still a pretty terrible odds.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7527
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:40 pm Reply with quote
I have no idea how you reached such a number TasteyCookie. I can only assume that you're just not familiar with older anime. Titles like Onegai Twins, Da Capo, Tsukihime, Mahoromatic, Ai Yori Aoshi are all harems.

There should be about 40 out of the 156 total shows that have sold more than 10k that are harems (and that's not even including the Key VN adaptations which very easily could slide in there). So over 25% is "notorious selling very poorly". I don't think so.
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 1525
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:27 pm Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
Also SAO isn't quite a harem given that one girl is definitely chosen in the middle of the series.


Well wouldn't that make Monogatari also not a harem? Less than the definition being by how a guy has a girlfriend or not, it's more about how many women want to be his girlfriend, I'd say.

In any case, the harem aspect of Monogatari only bothered me during Bake, actually. I felt the arcs were a bit disjointed and the whole "finish arc, add to potential sex buddy list" motif really didn't do it for me.

I actually ended up liking Nise more than Bake because of that Embarassed
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