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The Mike Toole Show - Hollywood Blues


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explosionforgov



Joined: 16 Jun 2016
Posts: 74
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:37 am Reply with quote
When the GiTS movie came out, a lot of people were saying, "Well, everything except the original movie already sucked, so it's no big loss." Which sort of made me sad, because my only exposure to the series thus far was Stand-Alone Complex, which I watched dubbed on Toonami (and loved). I assume if I want to get more into the franchise, I should watch the original film, and I've been warned to skip Arise, though I don't know why exactly people hate it. All I know about the series is that it's CGI-- is it because people just hate CGI anime, or is the CGI itself particularly bad?

(Although to be honest, if the dub for Arise still has Richard Epcar and Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, I still might check it out anyways. I was quite fond of the dub cast.)
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NormanS



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 148
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:43 am Reply with quote
Its too bad Hollywood picked the wrong sci-fi cyberpunk police by Masamune Shirow to do a live adaptation when there is a different series that'd fit Hollywood's sensibilities which would be "Appleseed". The issue of whitewashing wouldn't even be a thing since Deunan is of mixed descent and ScarJo wouldn't even need to wear a wig! And it certainly has less baggage to live up to, as well as a good franchise to focus on the action and setting set-pieces.

Anyways, personally i think the only good "adaptation" would be Edge of Tomorrow. Its a loose adaptation but still good on its own.
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Zin5ki
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:57 am Reply with quote
NormanS wrote:
Its too bad Hollywood picked the wrong sci-fi cyberpunk police by Masamune Shirow to do a live adaptation when there is a different series that'd fit Hollywood's sensibilities which would be "Appleseed".

Alternatively, Hollywood could dispense with the tradition of taking its sci-fi pieces seriously and give people what they really want: an adaptation of Dominion Tank Police, complete with cat-ears and highly suggestive anti-tank inflatables.
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12skippy21



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 753
Location: York, England
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:03 am Reply with quote
The issue I had with the movie is that it was boring. I was the only one in my showing (impressive given it had only been out for one week), and I spent most of the movie on my phone. As Mike said, there is little feeling in the movie, the same can be said of the original but the original had a great atmosphere which dragged you in (while SAC was great for enhancing the universe). Hollywood simply seemed to try to copy everything. I still think they should have aimed for an original story where Kusanagi had to travel to America (hence don an American body), maybe investigate election fraud undertaken by another country to bring in a puppet government Wink
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menschmaschine



Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:15 am Reply with quote
I thought the Cream Lemon live action adaption was pretty good. Borrowed some elements from the Ami series while being it's own thing with a lot of original content. It seems like the director for that went on to do more notable stuff but I haven't seen any of it.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1018
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:27 am Reply with quote
Great review article! GitS aside (I liked the Major's new backstory including Kuze) I got a laugh at the picture form CHS. Really?? I'll have to look that one up, not knowing the manga...Also, some people actually liked the third DN movie, my daughter liked the ideas so much her e-mail account is still named based on it (and she's 22 now)!
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 7782
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:31 am Reply with quote
I assume the first time the image from Cromartie was used was in error?

explosionforgov wrote:
Although to be honest, if the dub for Arise still has Richard Epcar and Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, I still might check it out anyways. I was quite fond of the dub cast.

McGlynn is in it, but plays a different character. The Major and Batou are Elizabeth Maxwell and Chris Sabat, with mostly a typical Funimation cast. I enjoyed it, and would recommend seeing it, but once was enough.

Tatsuya Fujiwara might not have set the house on fire as Light, but he sure burned it down as Shishio in the Rurouni Kenshin movies. And without showing much of his face while doing it. Great trilogy!
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belvadeer



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 4609
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:01 pm Reply with quote
The live action Tiger Mask movie had such a stupid premise. Talk about ruining the essence of the series.
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ExplorerOfDubs



Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:28 pm Reply with quote
Great article, Mike Toole! Very Happy This is a very nice list (I still need to see Speed Racer Laughing). I've actually been thinking about a topic like this lately. It seems the western world (or the USA at least) has this clear fascination with trying to replicate animation into the real world.

I'd also like to mention how Universal is able to do a Voltron film since its divorced from Beast Go Lion. Makes me wonder if there are people in France who desperately want a live-action Grendizer film.

BTW, This critic I feel gives a good take on an Akira remake: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/moviesandtv/columns/moviebob/9204-Advice-From-a-Fanboy-Akira

P.S. For those who are curious, here are the other live-action remakes currently in development that Mike didn't get the chance to mention: Wink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alita:_Battle_Angel
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-02-22/warner-develops-live-action-film-of-tite-kubo-bleach-manga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubblegum_Crisis#Live-action_movie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Future#Feature_film
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_(manga)#Live-action_film
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-03-05/ernesto-foronda-working-on-film-adaptation-of-dororo-manga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaiking#Hollywood_remake
http://deadline.com/2011/10/after-getting-close-on-several-big-jobs-director-bryan-barbers-taking-his-next-meetings-with-gigantor-in-his-corner-185262/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_Wolf_and_Cub#Hollywood_remake
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mardock_Scramble#Live-action_film
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naruto#Films
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Scroll#Live-action_adaptation
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-05-18/saint-seiya-manga-gets-live-action-hollywood-film/.116261
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_%26_Bunny#Live-action_film
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexille#Live_action_film


Last edited by ExplorerOfDubs on Sun May 28, 2017 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WingKing



Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 548
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:30 pm Reply with quote
I think it's telling of how difficult it is to translate anime across mediums to live action that even the Japanese have a lot of trouble getting it right. The Kenshin films are among the few that I've been able to even just sit through from start to finish, never mind actually enjoying them (which I actually did, a lot).

I did find Ghost in the Shell entertaining, at least, but I also agree that it was oddly unengaging emotionally. I think part of the problem for me was that it did crib so heavily from the previous versions. So whenever a key scene came up, instead of being able to get caught up in it, I'm sitting there thinking, "Oh, they took that from the first film," or, "Okay, that's referencing that SAC episode," and it broke my immersion every time that happened. It's hard for me to really get into a movie when I'm being jerked back into my seat every few minutes.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14374
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:35 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The success of Ghost in the Shell would've translated directly to more money, resources, and opportunities for the gang at I.G., plus a boomlet of similar adaptations for TV and film, which would've meant more rewards for the anime business on the whole.


Well, let's just say I think they're happy with what they got out of it. One man's disappointment is another's long-term investment. Cool

Quote:
Unfortunately, what needed to happen, before anything else, was for the movie to be good. Ghost in the Shell was a number of things, but “good” wasn't one of them.


How a movie was perceived has never stopped a lot of films from being successful. Alien: Covenant has a fairly similar RT score to Prometheus, and a cheaper budget than GITS. And it's still underperforming. Those Transformers movies, OTOH...

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As the story's central character, the Major (I hate how they clumsily dance around her background by using her squad title like it's her name)


Hey, it worked for I Dream of Jeannie.

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a director who wastes way too much time attempting to ape the 1995 animated movie's best scenes instead of building something fresh that simply hearkens back to the original.


Yeah, why can't it have totally new and original scenes like that live-action Beauty and the Beast? Oh, wait. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
There's been a lot of talk about this movie's casting, about how using Johansson to play what had previously been a definitively Asian character was just more lame-ass Hollywood whitewashing.I think there's truth to that and it's unfortunate, but it isn't surprising, and I don't think it made a big difference at the box office.


If you don't think it made a difference, check out the total haul for that live-action Blood: The Last Vampire movie from '09.

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to the point that the actors repeat this terrible, awkward dialogue, and then both the director and the producers are like, “Yes, this is good, actually,” and a year or so later we have a mediocre movie.


Someone hasn't sat through Passengers.

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Still, what remains in its wake is this lingering sense that there's a lot riding on every goddamn one of these anime movies, that so much depends on just one of these big-deal adaptations finally being successful, dammit!


Well, in anime's defense how many non-Batman and non-Superman Western comic movies were hits out of the park right away? Dick Tracy, The Crow, and The Mask? And they're all cashing in on Burton's Batman, to some extent.

Quote:
If you mention Guyver II: Dark Hero to the right kind of film nerds, they'll start rhapsodizing, not about future screenwriter and Solid Snake voice David Hayter's corny performance as the lead, but about the eye-popping special effects work of Steve Wang, which elevate this movie well beyond its low-budget genre trappings.


Yeah, one of the Sentai guys told me he liked those, too.

Quote:
When it came out in 1995, Crying Freeman didn't have a prayer of breaking out or making waves anywhere—it had a few known character actors, but no big stars, and it was made well outside of the Hollywood system.


I think it was actually co-produced by FOX overseas.

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This is a shame, because this movie really gets it right!


Back in '04, Mark D. told me we were supposed to get a N. American release of it. But I guess that went out the window, along with a U.S. DVD release of the DC of his Drive with Kadeem Hardison.

Oh, and yeah, I have to totally agree with you on Cromartie. Way better than it should be for a live-action cash-in off an intentionally dumb comedy. Surprisingly, the AX crowd for the screening of that one back in '05 was packed. I guess if you want the Japanese answer to The Young Ones, you might wanna check it out, too.

Quote:
Don't let anyone tell you about the third film, a prequel about L. It never happened, alright?! There's no such movie!


For me, it was like Spidey 3, a campy and enjoyable guilty pleasure.

Also, as I said before, Speed Racer would be a better movie if it actually had speed and racing, and not just endless talking. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Of all of the live-action Hollywood anime projects that they've periodically threatened us with, but have never actually gotten anywhere near principal photography (e.g. Robotech, Voltron, Akira) I think a live-action Star Blazers has the most potential.


It's just a shame a live-action Star Blazers already happened with Interstellar. Wink

Oh, and I disagree with the assessment of the live-action Casshern. That was awesome, especially when you watch it next to, say, Sky Captain.

Quote:
My one question is this: why are they still calling the heroine Alita, and not Gally?


Because that name sells better overseas? Anyway, you should at least be glad Rodriguez stopped being a dick like Cameron, by squatting on the manga, and we can finally get it in print again.

Quote:
Well, we're gonna have to keep waiting for that moment. What do you think needs to happen for one of these adaptations to be a global hit?


Well, for one, more flops like King Arthur, so that scummy suits stop paying shills to sabotage the rep of movies like GITS, just because they hate competition. It's a shame the DC/Time Warner people couldn't handle the idea of it being out of the gate before Wonder Woman, and had to play dirty like that, but waddya gonna do?

Norman:
Quote:
Its too bad Hollywood picked the wrong sci-fi cyberpunk police by Masamune Shirow to do a live adaptation when there is a different series that'd fit Hollywood's sensibilities which would be "Appleseed".


Well, that's not going to happen any time soon after Divergent, so...

Zin5:
Quote:
Alternatively, Hollywood could dispense with the tradition of taking its sci-fi pieces seriously and give people what they really want: an adaptation of Dominion Tank Police,


And that's not going to happen any time soon after Tank Girl.


Last edited by GATSU on Sun May 28, 2017 3:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1612
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:22 pm Reply with quote
Maybe a lot of people didn't see it but Jackie Chan's campy version of City Hunter is actually really really funny, and he actually does a really good job playing Ryo whose kind of a ham actually. Still probably my favorite Jackie Chan movie and favorite LA adaptation.

Also agree Edge of Tomorrow should be on the list.
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Parsifal24



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 950
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:36 pm Reply with quote
I was never a fan of the Ghost In the Shell Live Action Adaptation I just love the original Manga and Anime films too much to even be objective about it. That being said I didn't want it to completely fail either. As far as good Live Action adaptations I thought the Live Action Honey And Clover was good despite some odd rewrites the casting over all felt good.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Klown: Edge of Tomorrow is based on a novel, not an anime or manga.
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1203
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 2:27 pm Reply with quote
I enjoyed the Ghost in the Shell live-action adaptation, and mostly disagree with Mike's impressions. While the original 95' film had thought-provoking questions, it was a little too pretentious in its storytelling and presentation for me to identify with it. The live-action adaptation is a bit more of a generic story in comparison, but I liked that it grounded and humanized the Major's character, and made her relationship with Batou seem more of a tangible, two-way street. And regarding the White-washing, as an Asian-American myself I had no issue with it, and felt it was an overblown nontroversy.

I second the notion of Jackie Chan's City Hunter adaptation being a lot of fun, albeit the pacing is a bit frenetic and weird at times.
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