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New Forum Rules 06/29/2018


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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7832
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:08 pm Reply with quote
Hey folks-

So after talking about it in-depth with our team and getting feedback from the community itself, we overhauled our forum rules. I'll quote them here, they aren't too long:

Quote:
Anime News Network Forum Mission Statement:

Anime News Network is a community brought together by our love of and interest in anime, manga, and video games. All people regardless of their age, religion, race, ethnicity, nationality, culture, gender, sexual identity and sexual orientation, and physical and mental ability are welcome to come here and enjoy fandom together.

Towards these ends, we do not allow hateful speech that denigrates an individual, or group of individuals based on their identity. This includes, but is not limited to, any speech that suggests that any person or group is in any way inferior due to their age, religion, race, ethnicity, nationality, culture, gender, sexual identity and sexual orientation, and physical and mental ability. We also consider hate speech to include any suggestion the rights of an individual should be limited due to the above mentioned identifiers or that their personhood is in some way unethical.

Our rules already forbid hateful speech, so we would like to remind you that any attack on any age, religion, race, ethnicity, culture, gender, sexual identity or sexual orientation will be immediately dealt with by our moderators.

The Anime News Network forums operate under These Simple Rules:

Don't be a jerk. Anime News Network's staff and moderators reserve the right to remove anyone from this space that cannot conduct themselves in a respectful, courteous manner.

Posters' contributions should not create an atmosphere that is unwelcome to marginalized peoples. The moderators and staff reserve the right to remove anyone actively creating an unwelcome environment at their own discretion.

Post relevant, thoughtful responses. Consider if what you are writing is relevant or important to others. Engaging in bad faith arguments is not allowed. If you are not interested in what the other party has to say, you are not discussing the topic; you are soap-boxing.

Moderators have full discretion to enforce the spirit of the rules. Moderators have the right to lock, delete or modify any post at any time if they feel it negatively impacts the forum. If a thread is locked, that means the subject may not be brought up again.

Stay on Topic: Discussion should be related to anime, anime news, Anime News Network, the forum topic, or in some way relevant to this website. Excessively off-topic ("OT") posts will be locked or deleted.

Write clearly: Please attempt to write your thoughts as clearly and concisely as possible. We understand our readers come from all over the world, so please attempt to discuss topics in English to the best of your ability.

Report, do not engage, rule breakers. Save yourself the headache and let a moderator take care of it.
• Self-promotion is only allowed if it has value, is relevant, and creates discussion for this forum. See here for additional details.

• No Commerce is allowed outside of either the Retail or Subscriber Personal Sales Forum (see rules for Subscribers here).

• No bootlegs, fansubs, scanlations, or counterfeit items may be sold or linked here.

• Remember your spoiler tags, watch out for excessive quoting, and don't “necro-post” super old threads. No one's responding there anymore.


Here's the new post in our Rules subforum:
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3083884

This thread is for feedback if you have it. Thanks for reading!
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Manami-san



Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:45 pm Reply with quote
The very broad and vague definition of “hate speech” here as well as the “marginalised people” rule could I fear lead to the censorship of viewpoints, especially conservative ones, that don’t align with the political viewpoint of this forum’s moderators. I’ve experienced similiar things as a student. I hope there can still be fair and open debate despite this.
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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 3278
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:46 pm Reply with quote
Not trying to be a smartass, but since this is the place to discuss the new rules is there a list of the old rules so we could compare? I'm not really seeing anything different except maybe the unwelcome atmosphere part.
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Kendra Kirai



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:59 pm Reply with quote
As Manami-San says, the wording of these rules seem vague and slightly worrisome, especially the 'at their discretion' part, which suggests the possibility of simply getting on a mods bad side and having no ability to appeal or contest.
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DerekL1963
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 14 Jan 2015
Posts: 746
Location: Puget Sound
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:00 pm Reply with quote
I'll have to see how these rules are implemented before judging... But even though our resident right wing trolls have gone overboard and need reining in, I find the idea that you must hew to a certain narrow range of viewpoints repugnant.

Especially since I've recently seen posts that are non-political and not hateful (but unpopular with some) being deleted.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 4366
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:00 pm Reply with quote
Manami-san wrote:
The very broad and vague definition of “hate speech” here as well as the “marginalised people” rule could I fear lead to the censorship of viewpoints, especially conservative ones, that don’t align with the political viewpoint of this forum’s moderators. I’ve experienced similiar things as a student. I hope there can still be fair and open debate despite this.


Are you suggesting that "conservative" view points are inherently hateful or full of bigotry? Because that's the only way your view points would get "censored" under these rules. The rules seem very specific to me, and I applaud ANN for being so clear about their anti-hate policies. Valve should follow this example.
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Trendo



Joined: 07 Jun 2018
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:00 pm Reply with quote
The only question i have; Is it still okay to call other user as pedophiles because they like some animes with lolis or calling fans from a specific anime as pedos, homophobic, racist etc. ?

Last edited by Trendo on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Punished_Nitsugalego



Joined: 20 Jun 2018
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:01 pm Reply with quote
This rules are amazingly clear and could never be abused, ever.

Please don't ban me, daddy
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mrsatan



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 731
Location: Olympia, WA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Manami-san wrote:
The very broad and vague definition of “hate speech” here as well as the “marginalised people” rule could I fear lead to the censorship of viewpoints, especially conservative ones, that don’t align with the political viewpoint of this forum’s moderators. I’ve experienced similar things as a student. I hope there can still be fair and open debate despite this.


This is a concern to me as well, especially dealing with an international audience.

I've seen people here sometimes flip out at foreigners for saying things that are perfectly acceptable in their cultures but don't line up 100% with whatever U.S. college campuses keep deciding for us is acceptable speech.

It could be especially problematic because of the subject matter often depicted in anime and manga, which is very often at odds with current Western progressive thinking.

The forums seemed like they were fine already and I am wary of fixing what isn't broken.
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ximpalullaorg



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Let me preface by saying this: your forum, your rules. So I offer my opinion even if know it's not really important.

With that said, I can't think anything good will come out of this. Especially since the new rules make reference to "ethical" and "moral" standards, which not only change over time, but are extremely subjective.

As a non US-resident, I personally find them...if I may say it...overly moralizing and not very clear. But again, I personally believe that people have the right to be "in the wrong". Trying to avoid flame and all-out insults is one thing, but trying to "enforce" (for a lack of better term) a certain way of thinking is something that will backfire, IMO.

Another concern: what happens for example if someone decides to comment on news similar to the Omega Labyrinth one? With the new rules, it's going to open a can of worms.


Last edited by ximpalullaorg on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 653
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:15 pm Reply with quote
The "spirit of the rules" is something that really should be taken into account no matter what. All they've really done is (re)state principles and phrased rules so that they can deal with bad actors based on common sense moreso than technicality for those bad actors to dance around, which is what people were complaining about before.

So I guess the question is, do you trust the people here or not? If you've been here for any length of time and haven't left, it stands to reason there is at least some. So I'd say give it a chance for now and react to what happens, not what might happen.
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Punished_Nitsugalego



Joined: 20 Jun 2018
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:18 pm Reply with quote
mrsatan wrote:
Manami-san wrote:
The very broad and vague definition of “hate speech” here as well as the “marginalised people” rule could I fear lead to the censorship of viewpoints, especially conservative ones, that don’t align with the political viewpoint of this forum’s moderators. I’ve experienced similar things as a student. I hope there can still be fair and open debate despite this.


This is a concern to me as well, especially dealing with an international audience.

I've seen people here sometimes flip out at foreigners for saying things that are perfectly acceptable in their cultures but don't line up 100% with whatever U.S. college campuses keep deciding for us is acceptable speech.

It could be especially problematic because of the subject matter often depicted in anime and manga, which is very often at odds with current Western progressive thinking.

The forums seemed like they were fine already and I am wary of fixing what isn't broken.


lol was it fine before?
I've seen people get banned for politely disagreeing with ANN staff (or at least get their posts deleted, iirc).
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ximpalullaorg



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:20 pm Reply with quote
GWOtaku wrote:

So I guess the question is, do you trust the people here or not? If you've been here for any length of time and haven't left, it stands to reason there is at least some. So I'd say give it a chance for now and react to what happens, not what might happen.


People are fallible. That's why rules written like this are not a good idea. Simply because as human beings there's too much room for "interpretation".
Personally speaking, I haven't "trusted" this site in a long time (more than ten years or so I guess?). Doesn't mean I cannot comment on news I find interesting.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 2713
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Manami-san wrote:
The very broad and vague definition of “hate speech” here as well as the “marginalised people” rule could I fear lead to the censorship of viewpoints, especially conservative ones, that don’t align with the political viewpoint of this forum’s moderators. I’ve experienced similiar things as a student. I hope there can still be fair and open debate despite this.


This was brought up several times this past week, and it turns out that an anime forum isn't a healthy setting for engaging in "fair and open debate" when people are allowed to use "speech that suggests that any person or group is in any way inferior due to their age, religion, race, ethnicity, nationality, culture, gender, sexual identity and sexual orientation, and physical and mental ability".

mrsatan wrote:
The forums seemed like they were fine already and I am wary of fixing what isn't broken.


https://twitter.com/ANN_Lynzee/status/1010257151950970880

https://twitter.com/frog_kun/status/1010356259776749568

https://twitter.com/B0bduh/status/1010500670842114048

https://twitter.com/ANNJakeH/status/1010245559293173760

Not really anything I think I can add to all that.
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Mojave



Joined: 07 May 2017
Posts: 178
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:30 pm Reply with quote
GWOtaku wrote:
The "spirit of the rules" is something that really should be taken into account no matter what. All they've really done is (re)state principles and phrased rules so that they can deal with bad actors based on common sense moreso than technicality for those bad actors to dance around, which is what people were complaining about before.

So I guess the question is, do you trust the people here or not? If you've been here for any length of time and haven't left, it stands to reason there is at least some. So I'd say give it a chance for now and react to what happens, not what might happen.


I think that people can have a degree of trust in the ANN staffers but also find some of their judgment and behavior on the forums questionable or downright inappropriate, and thus have sincere concerns about the degree of power that the new rules give them. It also greatly differs greatly by staffer. Rebecca and Theron frequently engage in productive and civil discussion with those who disagree with them in the forum threads, while Jacob and sometimes Zac often flame and degrade those who disagree with them in both forum threads and columns and make posts in the forums that would almost certainly get deleted if they themselves weren't on the staff. So I can say, that for me personally, I do have some genuine concerns about this rule change not doing enough to curtail the problematic behavior in the forums coming from some staffers and instead giving them even more license to continue contributing to some of the major problems with civility and constructive discussion on the forums, as well as greater reign to censor those who disagree with them from even moderate or centrist viewpoints.


Last edited by Mojave on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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