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The Mike Toole Show - The One Truth, And Nothing But the One Truth: An Oral History of Case Closed


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Spastic Minnow
Bargain HunterBargain Hunter


Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 3984
Location: Central Florida
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:01 pm Reply with quote
The biggest mystery to me is why Crunchyroll can't get more of the back catalog to bridge the Funimation stuff to the point they started. It seems to me that the obvious solution would be to figure out a way to purchase the remastered episodes. The remasters cover the essential episodes and better mysteries. They've even started to remaster anime original episodes.

And get that special from a couple years ago that updates the first episode with smartphones and other current technology. It was surprisingly really well done!
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BalmungHHQ



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 147
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:31 pm Reply with quote
Ah yes, Case Closed. I have a long history with this series, since it was the very first series' I started collecting on DVD. I like to consider it the title that truly started my anime collection.

That was all thanks to me happening to catch it on adult swim one night during its summer run on the network. Actually, I think Case Closed really gained a pretty big following at that time, even though fans who were already aware of the series were put off by the name changes and such. Several people I knew at the time who didn't normally watch anime were really into it. It's such a shame it wasn't able to ride that momentum and get even bigger...

Still, I supported the series as best I could, I bought all the single DVD releases, and then rebought it all again on S.A.V.E. All that, plus buying the 6 movies they released.

BTW, a funny fact about the whole "Kaspar and Melkior" thing, is that as far as I recall, I don't remember those names actually being used in the FUNimation dub, because when their names were first mentioned, it was still Gin and Vodka. And they retained those names, even into Movie 5 where they appeared again in the dub. Similarly, Ai Haibara's appearance in the dubs of movies 3-6 feature her using the name "Vi Graythorne". It's odd, but it wouldn't surprise me if the initial style guide (which is what the manga used) did actually use "Kaspar", "Melkior", and "Anita Hailey", but it's just funny because it seems like FUNimation themselves were the first to ditch the idea of remaining overly faithful to that style guide after several episodes, lol.

Still, I'm hopeful for the future of the franchise here in the West, especially with several features such as "Zero the Enforcer", "The Crimson Love Letter", and "Episode 'ONE' " all being recently revealed to have English dubs. I just hope they make it out on home video eventually!
I think now is the perfect opportunity for the series to try and find its audience again in the West!

P.S.- Shocked that there was no mention of "Case Closed 101", lol

Spastic Minnow wrote:
And get that special from a couple years ago that updates the first episode with smartphones and other current technology. It was surprisingly really well done!

Actually, the English dub of that special debuts at a convention this weekend. Very Happy
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matthewlow



Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 141
Location: San Ramon, California
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:36 pm Reply with quote
As a self described over-dedicated Detective Conan fan, I’m so glad this article was written. I thought I knew everything there is to know about Case Closed in the US. I am clearly wrong. Thank you Mr. Toole.

The biggest problem with getting the back episodes of Conan is simply that it doesn’t pull in good enough streaming numbers right now. I’ve asked at Crunchyroll convention panels and that seems to be the consensus. I also asked about the Episode ONE special and the remastered episodes and I was told that the license just doesn’t cover those. That said, I’m surprised ANN didn’t have a news story on Crimson Love Letter and Episode ONE being shown in the US for the first time with an English dub this weekend. Baby steps! I’m still holding onto hope of the embargo on the lost Conan episodes to make it stateside as I’ve never seen them, but with CR losing 754-805 and VRV taking down 1-123 in the last week or so, I’m getting more concerned.

However, with the new dub of movies, Conan Runner game app, inclusion into the Buddyfight TCG, and the Bandai SHFiguarts making it stateside, there’s still some positive signs.

Side note: the new dub of the movies, Runner app, and Buddyfight TCG all use the original names. Come on Funimation or Discotek or Crunchyroll, release those movies!

And yes, Kaspar and Melchior were never used in the Funimation dub, but Viz and Funi had different names for Ai.

Someday, I hope that every episode, movie, and special makes it here in English, whether sub or dub. If it ever releases on DVD/BR, I’ll be first in line to preorder. I’ve bought every release so far (singles, chipboard box, seasons, SAVE, movies) in hopes that it would make a difference. Watch Conan on Crunchyroll (805 to Current) and Netflix (748-799). It’s worth it. And so good.
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BalmungHHQ



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 147
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:52 pm Reply with quote
matthewlow wrote:
Someday, I hope that every episode, movie, and special makes it here in English, whether sub or dub. If it ever releases on DVD/BR, I’ll be first in line to preorder.

Absolutely the same here. And I really hope it'd be possible for this to happen someday.

When the advent of "SD-BD" first started showing up in the anime world, one of my immediate thoughts was that a format like that would be a perfect fit for Detective Conan if the TV series were ever given a chance again on home video.
If everything's kept in SD, just imagine how many episodes per set we could get with such a release. On top of that, it'd be one of the most efficient ways to own the series on disc.
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ErikaD.D



Joined: 09 Jun 2019
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:15 pm Reply with quote
Non-English speakers: Detective Conan
English speakers: Case Closed (*Facepalm*)

Detective Conan isn't the only anime who had western names in dub, example: Yu Gi Oh, Sailor Moon, Cardcaptor Sakura, Digimon and Pokemon. I cannot imagine if some of todays animes had Americanized names in dub versions. For example, in My Hero Academia, instead Izuku Midoriya, it would be know as "Isaac Midoriya" (like Shinichi Kudo as "Jimmy Kudo") or Katsuki Bakugou as " Kasey Bullock", or Shoto Todoroki as "Shane Tennison". It really sound ridicilous and imagine that if it would be receive backlash if it happens today.

I'm think that copyright issues are killing Detective Conan and it's popularity. Now it's a "kids" show and it's compared to Sazae-San, Chibi Maruko-Chan.(But the manga version is not-so kid friendly) I feel that the quality of DC is declining and frequent hiatuses in manga are affecting DC. No wonder there are more filler episodes than usual this year. Somehow I feel like DC isn't the same as used to be. Sure, Detective Conan is not typical an action shonen anime like other shonen animes, DC is really an underrated manga/anime and western anime fans (and legal anime sites like Crunchyroll) are treated DC unfairly. I kinda feel bad for DC. I'm still watched DC on Saturdays.


Last edited by ErikaD.D on Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:53 am; edited 4 times in total
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vanishingblood



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:23 pm Reply with quote
Thank you for writing this article. But when the people interviewed say the title change was to avoid conflicts with Conan the Barbarian, I can't help but think they are unconsciously repeating the well-known suspected reason that's been spread on the net for years. They have one word in common and that word is a normal everyday name! There is no way that can lead to a lawsuit! Discotek has proven that. All hail Discotek! Please license more.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:07 pm Reply with quote
I am kind of curious if anything will come out of the new dubs that came out for the latest movies and the special. Seems kind of weird to just randomly dub the latest Conan media without a plan or expectation of doing more with the license in the West.

I'd also like to know who the new "dub cast" is. I've read Wendee Lee as Conan, Griffin Burns as Shinichi, Cristina Vee as Ran, Erika Harlacher as Mitsuhiko, and Erica Mendez as Haibara.


Last edited by MFrontier on Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shay Guy



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:09 pm Reply with quote
vanishingblood wrote:
There is no way that can lead to a lawsuit!


A lawsuit would probably fail, but that doesn't mean Conan Properties wouldn't try it. And even if it did fail, defending against it would cost lots of money.
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VoidSeeker



Joined: 17 Sep 2017
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:48 pm Reply with quote
I'm glad I'm not from Burgerland. Here in Germany the Manga is doing great (currently at Vol. 95) and we got all the Movies and Specials. Just recently we also got new dubbed episodes and no censorship or name changes whatsoever. That's just a Burgerland problem it seems Razz
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Commander Cluck



Joined: 02 May 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:05 pm Reply with quote
VoidSeeker wrote:
I'm glad I'm not from Burgerland. Here in Germany the Manga is doing great (currently at Vol. 95) and we got all the Movies and Specials. Just recently we also got new dubbed episodes and no censorship or name changes whatsoever. That's just a Burgerland problem it seems Razz


That's how a lot of dubs were back in the early 2000s. These days there's only a handful of heavily Americanized dubs, mostly the few remaining kids anime still on American TV, not counting the occasional questionable dubbing script changes from studios like Funimation.

Probably the most annoying thing about the dub I found was they used Shinichi's voice for Conan's inner monologue rather than Conan's. Seemed like such a random, but pretty mood altering change. Then again, given the series' features a number of American characters, as well as full English dialog between characters and language barriers being an in-universe thing, it always seemed like one of those series that was doomed in the English dub department from the get go.
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VoidSeeker



Joined: 17 Sep 2017
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Commander Cluck wrote:


Probably the most annoying thing about the dub I found was they used Shinichi's voice for Conan's inner monologue rather than Conan's. Seemed like such a random, but pretty mood altering change.

That's how it should be since he's only pretending to be a kid. I dunno about the english dub but the german dub masters this perfectly since both Shinichi and Conan are voiced by the same VA who alters his voice.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:25 pm Reply with quote
I know I've read more than once (though I can't source it without spending more time than it's worth) that Conan was so heavily westernized at the direction of the Japanese rights holders, who thought it would do better in the US that way. Apparently this is not the case after all?

As for the title, you can't copyright titles. You may be able to trademark titles if they're part of a series. But I can't see how you could copyright or trademark the name of a person, especially when using that name in conjunction with a differentiating word like "barbarian" or "detective." No one could plausibly argue that Detective Conan could be mistaken as part of the Conan the Barbarian franchise.

I can see why Funi would just change a title they weren't married to, to avoid even answering a frivolous lawsuit they knew they would win, but I doubt they would have been sued over it. A niche anime was/is hardly a competitor to the Conan the Barbarian empire to even take notice of, let alone waste money suing.
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ryonomiko
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Joined: 22 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:09 pm Reply with quote
Thank-you for the article!! So WHY the changes we may never know. oO

Detective Conan I've been a fan of since 1999.
Case Closed changes are horried and a complete turn off. I'd rather watch it raw and have no clue than put up with the dub and the mutilations to the episodes.

Nice to know Viz isn't changing names for newer characters... but still is for Shinichi at such? No I don't buy the English release. My Japanese skill level is poor, but I still order the Japanese version (20 years now why stop)

VIz so far behind the current manga volume in Japan *sigh*

Ever so happy Crunchyroll has had the anime running for a few years now (surprised at the loss of a block of the episodes)

Ever so happy Detective Conan has no signs of waning in popularity in Japan. Wish it would get a larger fanbase here in North America, but just does not want to seem to happen.
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kakoishii



Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 731
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:44 am Reply with quote
It's such a shame that Case Closed wasn't able to take off in the US. I remember I was addicted to this show when I was 15. I watched every episode that aired on Adult Swim and was devastated when there were no more episodes after episode 48. I eventually bought the series sets and watched all the episodes Funimation dubbed, but still was at a loss because I wanted more and couldn't get it.

I watch a lot anime with subtitles and I tried to watch this one and pick up where Funi left off, but this is the sort of show that benefits from having a dub. There's just so much information to process and things to pay attention to, that having to read through subtitles for it kind of takes away from it. I'm hopeful that one day this show finds a way to be profitable enough to have a dub, so I can pick this back up.
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:49 am Reply with quote
Case Closed has the dubious honour of being the only anime series yanked from YTV's schedule before running all of the episodes acquired. They bought 26, but gave up after 24.
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