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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2082
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:24 pm Reply with quote
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What I do find exhausting is just how many folks are obsessing and arguing over the box office for this and other nerd-property-based films that they had nothing to do with.


Not me, modern ox office discussion is just a way to gauge possibility of getting sequels. Sure,there is some dick measuring on that, but I just ignore it.
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Cetais



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 500
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:42 pm Reply with quote
I saw a post on social medias about the changes of Persona 5, and people are blaming a whole forum for blackmailing atlus, making it so they change it.

That's honestly the worst take I've heard, and some people actually thinks that despite the localization team saying it was their idea.
Also, as to why it's a bad idea? "Atlus is protecting predators from bad rep". Yup. Dumb af. They're totally missing the point by a long mile.
"But there are gay predators! They should be represented!" that's another person missing the point.

Those kind of things really makes me disguted by the gamer community.
There was also, a few weeks ago, a similar thing about the localisation of Cold Steel 3 where the team said they "toned down" a few scenes that felt misogynistic... Ugh.
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Triltaison



Joined: 03 Jul 2011
Posts: 323
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:23 pm Reply with quote
I'm most looking forward to Animal Crossing and Mystery Dungeon in March since I'm ready for some cuteness overload in my life. I'll probably get Ori for Xbox sometime in April, too.
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Horsefellow



Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:26 pm Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:
Not me, modern ox office discussion is just a way to gauge possibility of getting sequels. Sure,there is some dick measuring on that, but I just ignore it.


Of course. Box office numbers are important and determine if something is a success or not which in turn can lead to sequels. "Quality' is in the eye of the beholder, so it's pointless to argue about that. But this kind of discourse is actual marketing these days. Movies have been trying to sell themselves on this kind of war for a few years now, ever since Ghostbusters 2016. Have the director or lead say some inflammatory shit, spread it around, get people talking about your film. Boom. Free marketing. Only downside is it doesn't seem to actually work out in their favor which cause them to double down and start even more toxicity.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4058
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:34 pm Reply with quote
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b. I'd have to sit in theatres alongside a gaggle of loud, screaming kids.


You're sitting on the internet with a bunch of loud, screaming manchildren who complain about such thing as........Atlus removing a collection of dialog from the localized version of Persona 5 that bordered on homophobic


Cetais wrote:

That's honestly the worst take I've heard, and some people actually thinks that despite the localization team saying it was their idea.
Also, as to why it's a bad idea? "Atlus is protecting predators from bad rep". Yup. Dumb af. They're totally missing the point by a long mile.
"But there are gay predators! They should be represented!" that's another person missing the point.
.


My personal favorite is the "I'm against censorship on principle types" calling for a boycott of Royale because apparently taking out a joke most people who played the game thought was offensive to a specific group of people is comparable to the stuff countries like China or North Korea do to anyone who has the audacity to point how shitty the country's government or policies are.

Quote:
Anyway: Coronavirus is serious, but being overly paranoid about it doesn't help at all. You can protect yourself and others through common sense:


The same common sense thousands of people lack when it comes to doing like say.....vaccinating their kids?


Horsefellow wrote:

Of course. Box office numbers are important and determine if something is a success or not which in turn can lead to sequels. "Quality' is in the eye of the beholder, so it's pointless to argue about that. But this kind of discourse is actual marketing these days. Movies have been trying to sell themselves on this kind of war for a few years now, ever since Ghostbusters 2016. Have the director or lead say some inflammatory shit,


Maybe I'm misremembering but some of the criticism towards the movie (and it's actresses) were legitimately more inflammatory than anything the cast or director said about the very people engaging in said shit flinging towards the movie and it's female cast members.

This isn't like Todd Phillips bitching about how "certain groups" have made it harder to tell certain jokes in modern film. While promoting a film that wasn't even a comedy like his previous films.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1760
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:59 pm Reply with quote
Cetais wrote:
I saw a post on social medias about the changes of Persona 5, and people are blaming a whole forum for blackmailing atlus, making it so they change it.

That's honestly the worst take I've heard, and some people actually thinks that despite the localization team saying it was their idea.
Also, as to why it's a bad idea? "Atlus is protecting predators from bad rep". Yup. Dumb af. They're totally missing the point by a long mile.
"But there are gay predators! They should be represented!" that's another person missing the point.

Those kind of things really makes me disguted by the gamer community.
There was also, a few weeks ago, a similar thing about the localisation of Cold Steel 3 where the team said they "toned down" a few scenes that felt misogynistic... Ugh.


If there's one thing I've learned, it's never about "censorship" it's about people being mad that they can't control a franchise. These are the kind of dweebs who don't understand that Persona 5 is about skewering "traditional" Japanese values.

As for everything else, I'm just gonna chill with Animal Crossing. It's just pleasant
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 13771
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:41 am Reply with quote
Sony just pulled out of GDC (Game Developers Conference) next month too in the opposite coast San Francisco

"PS5 was going to be the hottest topic at GDC, but Sony just canceled"
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Jen Bigby



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 100
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:08 am Reply with quote
Cetais wrote:
Those kind of things really makes me disguted by the gamer community.
There was also, a few weeks ago, a similar thing about the localisation of Cold Steel 3 where the team said they "toned down" a few scenes that felt misogynistic... Ugh.


Complaining about bad localizations is an old anime past time. There is no need to limit it to just gamers. People in my day complained about these same kinds of changes with G-Force and Battle of the Planets. Video games are nothing special.

BadNewsBlues wrote:
Maybe I'm misremembering but some of the criticism towards the movie (and it's actresses) were legitimately more inflammatory than anything the cast or director said about the very people engaging in said shit flinging towards the movie and it's female cast members.


Calling out and pushing back against hatred and bigotry is not inflammatory, so let's just nip that in the bud first and foremost. You don't get to harass people then cry about people being mean when they don't sit there and let you do it. Free pass once that happens, far as I'm concerned. Secondly. the entire manufactured 'war' was one sided. Critics, websites, actors, writers, directors, and fans throwing everything they could against Sonic to desperately try to salvage the sinking ship they bet their chips on and each time they had their disinformation shut down. Easily one of the most artificial rivalries I've ever seen. I don't think a single person associated with the Sonic film ever even acknowledge Birds of Prey or made any comment on the matter.

AiddonValentine wrote:
If there's one thing I've learned, it's never about "censorship" it's about people being mad that they can't control a franchises


The only reason localizers do this and people who support them do so is because they themselves can't control the franchise. They don't want the joke in the game but it is, so the only thing they can do is pretend it doesn't exist in the American localization. It's the perfect representation of that old "You made this? .... I made this" comic. If you can't control the original anime or game, the next best thing is to control it's localization and how it's consumed in a foreign market. Fortunately, alternative ways to consume said media and information that educates people on what's trying to be hidden from them exist.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4058
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:24 pm Reply with quote
Jen Bigby wrote:
Complaining about bad localizations is an old anime past time.


This isn't complaining about bad localization which is funny because Persona 5 had legitimate issues in how it was translated but instead of focusing on that and hoping it was fixed for Royale people are complaining about not being able to laugh at a joke that wasn't very funny involving a pair of homosexuals coming on to a high schooler.


Jen Bigby wrote:
Calling out and pushing back against hatred and bigotry is not inflammatory,


Oh I know that which was why I questioned how pushing back against trolls and shitheads was inflammatory compared to the comments people made about the female cast in particuar Leslie Jones.

Jen Bigby wrote:
Easily one of the most artificial rivalries I've ever seen. I don't think a single person associated with the Sonic film ever even acknowledge Birds of Prey or made any comment on the matter.


I don't know why anyone that liked Birds of Prey would've felt need to piss on the Sonic movie out of spite considering the lukewarm reception the movie originally got when it was first revealed. Which would explain why the cast of Sonic didn't really think too much about that as they already had a rabbid group of people to deal with.


Jen Bigby wrote:
Fortunately, alternative ways to consume said media and information that educates people on what's trying to be hidden from them exist.


I don't see what's fortunate about that unless the point is to illustrate that whoever has been directing the Persona games needs to either join a world that gradually becoming more accepting towards certain things or to step down considering this isn't the first time they felt the need to put in a joke that was offensive to either gay or transsexual people.

It's like yeah I can look up and see what the original title of "And Then There Were None"
was isn't going to make me stop and think you know they were wrong to change the original title it's going to make me think what hell was up with Agatha Christie?
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russ869



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 353
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:52 pm Reply with quote
Jen Bigby wrote:
The only reason localizers do this and people who support them do so is because they themselves can't control the franchise. They don't want the joke in the game but it is, so the only thing they can do is pretend it doesn't exist in the American localization. It's the perfect representation of that old "You made this? .... I made this" comic. If you can't control the original anime or game, the next best thing is to control it's localization and how it's consumed in a foreign market. Fortunately, alternative ways to consume said media and information that educates people on what's trying to be hidden from them exist.

Exactly. I thought I was gonna come down on the other side of the issue, but now that I'm thinking about it Persona 5 Royal is a new product. There really isn't anything wrong with the creators making a change that they consider to be an improvement. You can also argue that is isn't really "censorship" because they aren't trying to hunt down and destroy every copy of the original. You can't rewrite history. The original is always going to be out there somewhere that people can find it (unless you're talking about "dead" online-only video games, but that's a totally separate nightmare discussion, best off to just never play any of those...). If these scenes were being changed only in the English version, then yeah I'd consider that censorship via bad localization (same as crappy censored dubs for Yu-Gi-Oh!, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, etc.).
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 285
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:27 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
This isn't complaining about bad localization which is funny because Persona 5 had legitimate issues in how it was translated but instead of focusing on that and hoping it was fixed for Royale people are complaining about not being able to laugh at a joke that wasn't very funny involving a pair of homosexuals coming on to a high schooler.


To be fair, most of the 'bad localization' complaints came from people who were upset there weren't lots of Americanized jokes and memes and stuff. They criticized the class segments that asked very specifically Japanese questions like kanji writing, the lines about Japanese words and traditions, the use of honorifics and titles, use of phrases like "it can't be helped" or "as expected" showing up all the time. Sure, there was probably typos and an odd line here or there, but no worse than you can find in other games. The whole crux of the 'Persona 5 has a bad localization' has always been 'it's too Japanese/anime". But I'd say most Persona fans love that about the games. Anime fans are used to accurate and literal translations. Video game fans, eh, not so much. Especially the video game fans who hate anime and Japan, but still play their games for some reason

russ869 wrote:
If these scenes were being changed only in the English version, then yeah I'd consider that censorship via bad localization (same as crappy censored dubs for Yu-Gi-Oh!, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, etc.).


I've learned it's called censorship when people don't like a change and localization when they do. Studios localize their movies for markets like China and Russia all the time, and it gets people upset and they cry censorship. But when you get upset at stuff being changed for an American market you get called a whiner and told to get over it. How very curious indeed Razz
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Horsefellow



Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:30 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Maybe I'm misremembering but some of the criticism towards the movie (and it's actresses) were legitimately more inflammatory than anything the cast or director said about the very people engaging in said shit flinging towards the movie and it's female cast members.

This isn't like Todd Phillips bitching about how "certain groups" have made it harder to tell certain jokes in modern film. While promoting a film that wasn't even a comedy like his previous films.


I have to agree that if you start a fight you lose the right to complain when your opponent swings back. And it's always the Hollywood elite that swing first, I can assure you. Either way, it's a bad marketing technique. All it does is drive away your customers. Part of the reason Sonic did to well was because it listened to fan feedback and ensured it would appease its audience through both design and writing changes. That's what products should be doing, not talking down to their audience and preemptively berating them.

Quote:
I don't know why anyone that liked Birds of Prey would've felt need to piss on the Sonic movie out of spite considering the lukewarm reception the movie originally got when it was first revealed.


It appears things changed the minute the Sonic movie listened to its fans and changed Sonic's design, which a lot of culture warriors felt was a mistake and would only make fans feel "entitled". It was just another dumb fight in the "culture war". The "feminist movie" was supposed to win against the "gamer movie". That's all it really came down to in the end.
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