Forum - View topicREVIEW: The Ghost in the Shell Legacy Edition Box Set Manga Review
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justsomeaccount
 Posts: 540 |
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On my part I read the whole Shirow manga on Manga K over a year ago, and afterwards the first Oshii movie, nothing else. So I kinda enjoyed the first series both for its drawing, lots of cool concepts, some of the political commentary whether I agree or not, the humor and self-parody (I still crack up when in the first chapter Motoko admonishes a kid he just saved from enslavement by saying he needs to carry on by himself and goes off, and the kid rightfully says that's easy for that privileged high charge to say). But overall it's not very consistent, no, characterization changes according to convenience, and it's a lot of throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks, and sometimes the unseriousness while funny feels weird like the end of that first series spoiler[because Motoko kinda accepts the puppeteer offer out of annoyance, and they're throwing banter at each other constantly on the way; it feels like a parody of the movie if that movie came first, which is kinda charming but spoils the amazement of the moment]. The fanservice in the first series I found it fine, it was lighthearted, honest and non pretentious (the movie's screams to me self-serious self-indulging arthouse director). The manga also made me crystalize what I didn't like from the movie because of the elements they try to put together with some hellishly clunky infodump at the start (and made worse by the fact Motoko tells her partner [don't remember his name] is on the team because he's more human but he barely has a character, personality or payoff), though I think the movie is way more consistent and evoking. But I certainly see the influence it had world-wide, both the manga and the movie.
Can't say the same praise for the sequels, no, the second one is just boring without going anywehere so it feels pointless; and the other... I'll say, the premise is interesting since spoiler[we're following a random case of the evolved Motoko with all the clones, complexity and higher scope proceedings that you expect from such an evolved net being which is interesting to see], but when everything is drawn like the most extreme and lame fetishistic version possible, not only it's not awe-inspiring like the designs in most other GitS seem, it's just icky to watch, you gotta be in the exact mindset as Shirow, which kudos for the people who are and him being honest, but I'm not so... And yeah, it's extremely hard to follow with the most absurd and constant technobabble and footnotes about the technobabble, the pages layout, pacing, etc. and I'm a programmer who understands a lot of the terms they use, and I still feel I missed a lot, even if I get the bare minimum to follow along, but even then it doesn't have a satisfying payoff. I wouldn't mind someone to take that part and make a more palatable remake because I think it's possible, or a videogame (the structure often times feels more adequate for a game where you overcome challenges), but as it is, just as a curiosity thing. The drawing experiments with CG and other stuff I found a little charming though, like a 90s/early 00s homemade website, and since it's not being used on a story with a mood that could be ruined by it (this particular sequel's drawing style, not the franchise in general) I don't mind. |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2769 Location: Germany |
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I forgot that 1.5 also fails to reach a resolution. Shirow quit Appleseed mid-chapter to start GitS 89/90 and the Dominion reboot was then abandoned to start 1.5. Starting a second direct sequel while the first is still ongoing to abandon both is peak Shirow. GitS is easily Masamune Shirow´s artistic low point as a mainstream mangaka but also his only work to remain in print. Some pages or panels look great, others look like toilet stall scribbles. Very reminiscent of where Frank Miller went since the late 90s after giving up on listening to editors. All 3 volumes are literally hard to read, so who knows what went wrong, but the endless margin notes certainly paint a picture.
Classic comics not standing up today is a cliché, but the 89/90 original fails to reach the quality of its peers, despite easily being the best entry. 1991´s Battle Angel Alita and 1982´s Akira wipe the floor with it. Even 1988´s Silent Möbius or the 1988/89 AD Police manga pulls ahead despite barely trying. Easy to parse cop slop with solid art is always better than 300 pages of a stop-and-go headache. Especially if it tries to be funny. Unfunny humor and coftcore porn are my comic kryptonite and both the original and 2.0 go all in. 1.5 is just boring. All his manga but Black Magic also have noticeably better art. I have an easier time recommending Image Comics´ 90 ripoff Darkminds than any of Shirow´s GitS. It too remains unfinished. Pat Lee learned from only the best! GitS 2.0 was literally how I discovered that manga can be bad in 2000. If someone made me make a list of the 50 best sci-fi comics of the 80s & 90s, then Appleseed slots in, but you would need to go to 100 for me to even think about OG GitS and then only Vol 1. |
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Arale Kurashiki
Posts: 861 |
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> which is probably as accurate as it's humanly possible to get.
Well, no. https://ehoba.hatenablog.com/entry/2023/02/18/231900 As awkward as E. Hoba's own English is, I do think it's relevant because GitS' translation is honestly hard to follow. I think people attribute that to Shirow's eccentricities, which is fair enough because that ALSO makes it hard to follow. But still, if you're a translation enthusiast, I don't think these are insignificant. > They're probably not suitable for framing and displaying in one's living room. I doubt very much my wife would let me display any of these anywhere in my house, but at least I can unroll them now and then and bask briefly in their sparkly, luminescent beauty. Probably in the dark, when she's not looking. No offense meant to the reviewer but comments like these are always so weird to me. Me and all my friends (including my partner/roommate) are all girls and we all are not offended or scandalized by artwork like Shirow's. We all think his art rocks. Everyone has different perspectives on the world but "these are obscene objects that cant be displayed" being the default does really weigh on me over time. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 25610 |
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I wouldn't mind owning this but it seems I'd have to spend OOP premiums to do so even though it was only released in February of this year. *sigh*
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Zerreth
 Posts: 218 Location: E6 |
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I'm quoting for emphasis because I recently re-read my bilingual copy of the first book and my notes are similar to E. Hoba's. I'd say Schodt's translation work warrants a review because there were some incredibly awkward (or actually flat out incorrect) phrasing and moments that I had to refer to the japanese text to understand and object to his translation considered as accurate as possible. While not really impactful to the story, the one-liners from the various hawkers were particularly egregious in that in many instances it wasn't necessarily a difference of opinion in interpretation as it were just flat out rewrites. |
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Arale Kurashiki
Posts: 861 |
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Yeah I don't speak very good JP myself, but pretty much any time I've seen other English speakers say "this translation is perfect!" they... are just assuming that baselessly, without actually doing any comparison? I'm not sure why?
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Juno016
 Posts: 2583 |
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As a fellow lesbian enjoyer of sexy art (in particular, stuff from the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s, as well as the kind of art that visa and mastercard would question me owning) and as a feminist, I'm with you on it being weird to feel ashamed of liking any sort of sexy art if it was made ethically. You can disapprove of the sexualization of real women and still enjoy it in fiction or art, since no one's actual agency or harm is in question. That said, discomfort is a totally different subject. I will proudly display my artsy ero-figures, erotic tapestries, and bookshelves of BL, yuri, monster romance, etc. because my room is my own. If I lived with someone or had children, I'd be more considerate to their personal comfort level with the sexualization of women, and to the child in the house. The living room is also pretty guest-heavy in some households, so definitely a no-go. I think that's what the reviewer was talking about. Don't let it weigh on you. We stand strong. <3 --- I... am actually not a fan of the GitS manga much. The writing, characters, and even the dreary mechanical scifi vibe is just not for me. I used to be, but I was younger and I liked (and still really like) the artwork. My recent attempt to re-read the story just left me feeling hollow. On the flip side, it helped me justify giving my volumes away to a friend who does like it! I already have a good Shirow artbook I like, so I didn't feel it necessary to hold onto the books. That said, the big prints like this are nice, especially if you do like the art. I saw this edition in my local bookstore and the pages are pretty white! Good quality paper. |
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Arale Kurashiki
Posts: 861 |
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My thought is that it's, yknow, my body. And when me and my friends see a sexy drawing of a woman our reaction isn't even necessarily "hey, its sexy and in a way i like! im turned on!" or anything like that - it's just, hey, a cool drawing. So ideally I wouldn't be living with or inviting over people who are scandalized by these things in the first place, because frankly, I don't feel comfortable around people like that. Because I have the body they are saying is dirty and gross. You know?
Like, I get that the point of the drawing is to be sexy, but that just doesn't phase me at all because it is literally not a depiction of sex in any way. That's my perspective. It is men who I have found have never considered this idea even once. For me it isn't "this is so sexual that I am uncomfortable" vs. "this is so sexual that I like it", it's "this is literally not sexual to me because I can look down at my own chest right now. but also it's a cool drawing and she looks awesome". |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 6222 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Yeah, kinda of agree that Volume 1 was the best. Didn't really care much about the later two.
When you mentioned Cyberdelic posters, I thought you were talking about the Pieces or Galgrease poster books and small art books. The Cyberdelic posters appear to be ones that are in the series of Intron Depot artbooks. Here's hoping for Orion to be picked up, I had forgotten ANN reported on a 2 minute short anime that was made of it, for a 3D showing in Tokyo, now considered a 'lost' short film. |
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