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NEWS: Tokyo Babylon 2021 Anime Delayed From April 2021 Due to Plagiarism Incident


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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:27 am Reply with quote
Something about infinitely stupid decisions leading to completely foreseeable consequences... I assume heads are rolling right now, or at least I hope. On the brighter side, depending on the progress of the animation/dubbing, there's a very slim chance for schedule conflicts, and Aoi Shouta getting replaced by someone more capable! (OK, this is just a dream, but hope never dies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

(And seriously, chara designer, if you must plagiarize then why do it in such a blatantly obvious way, and with such popular sources?)
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3446
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:24 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
On the brighter side, depending on the progress of the animation/dubbing, there's a very slim chance for schedule conflicts, and Aoi Shouta getting replaced by someone more capable! (OK, this is just a dream, but hope never dies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

Well, the true hope would be if they had to change studios, but I fear at this point it's too late...

Quote:
(And seriously, chara designer, if you must plagiarize then why do it in such a blatantly obvious way, and with such popular sources?)

Also, not to forget, if there's ONE thing CLAMP is famous of, it is their gorgeous dress designs in their multitude of works, including in Tokyo Babylon...
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kawaiibunny3



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 534
Location: Houston, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:23 am Reply with quote
I'm hoping they'll re-think trying to modernize Tokyo Babylon and maybe try keeping it more of a early 90's period piece - that way they can just use CLAMP's original designs if they were that afraid of having their designs seem out of place and were stuck for their own modern inspiration.

Maybe it's presumptuous to say, but I feel like most fans of Tokyo Babylon would rather have something more close to the original's time period (I mean, there's an entire volume dedicated to a story about girls using payphones & party lines for occult purposes) and fashion sense. It could be an interesting approach to bring in newcomers too.
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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1817
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:28 am Reply with quote
Better than being cancelled I guess. I was wondering why all the teasers were removed by the developers.
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Saeryen



Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 884
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:28 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
On the brighter side, depending on the progress of the animation/dubbing, there's a very slim chance for schedule conflicts, and Aoi Shouta getting replaced by someone more capable! (OK, this is just a dream, but hope never dies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)


Um...I’m a fan of Shouta Aoi. I loved his voice in My Next Life as a Villainess, and his songs for Kono Oto Tomare. I also listened to a song of his that was really good. I really wish you wouldn’t talk about him like this.

As a whole, we need to be a lot kinder to voice actors. Most of them are good people and they work so hard to give us memorable characters by voicing them.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:15 am Reply with quote
Saeryen wrote:
SHD wrote:
On the brighter side, depending on the progress of the animation/dubbing, there's a very slim chance for schedule conflicts, and Aoi Shouta getting replaced by someone more capable! (OK, this is just a dream, but hope never dies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)


Um...I’m a fan of Shouta Aoi. I loved his voice in My Next Life as a Villainess, and his songs for Kono Oto Tomare. I also listened to a song of his that was really good. I really wish you wouldn’t talk about him like this.

Aoi is a perfectly good singer. And he has a nice voice. And he's also a very bad voice actor. This is not a judgement on his character, or on you for liking him. This is just my opinion on his talents (or lack thereof), which I think I should be allowed to voice. I'm sure there's something or someone that I'm a fan of, which you dislike and think is not very good. And that is fine.

Saeryen wrote:
As a whole, we need to be a lot kinder to voice actors. Most of them are good people and they work so hard to give us memorable characters by voicing them.

And sometimes they work very hard and are still not good, and one is left wondering what could have been with a better, or more suitable, actor in the role. This doesn't mean the voice actor is a bad person, or that they're not working hard. It just means they're not very good actors, or at lest not suited to the characters they play. It's a thing that happens.
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OtherSideofSky





PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:04 pm Reply with quote
Why would anyone need to copy outfits from other sources for Tokyo Babylon, of all things? I'm pretty sure some of these characters have more original outfits than the manga has chapters.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 11144
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:55 pm Reply with quote
Saeryen wrote:
SHD wrote:
On the brighter side, depending on the progress of the animation/dubbing, there's a very slim chance for schedule conflicts, and Aoi Shouta getting replaced by someone more capable! (OK, this is just a dream, but hope never dies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)


Um...I’m a fan of Shouta Aoi. I loved his voice in My Next Life as a Villainess, and his songs for Kono Oto Tomare. I also listened to a song of his that was really good. I really wish you wouldn’t talk about him like this.

As a whole, we need to be a lot kinder to voice actors. Most of them are good people and they work so hard to give us memorable characters by voicing them.

I guess I don't have a lot of experience with him, but he sounds fine as Geordo.
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Lady Multi



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 673
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:13 pm Reply with quote
kawaiibunny3 wrote:
I'm hoping they'll re-think trying to modernize Tokyo Babylon and maybe try keeping it more of a early 90's period piece - that way they can just use CLAMP's original designs if they were that afraid of having their designs seem out of place and were stuck for their own modern inspiration.

Maybe it's presumptuous to say, but I feel like most fans of Tokyo Babylon would rather have something more close to the original's time period (I mean, there's an entire volume dedicated to a story about girls using payphones & party lines for occult purposes) and fashion sense. It could be an interesting approach to bring in newcomers too.


I'm okay with the modernization, TBH, as I feel, if done well, it could be really interesting.

Honestly, never liked the idea that they re-designed Subaru's traditional outfit as that was a whole point of it being a TRADITIONAL garment; in contrast to his sister trying to keep him dressed up with the modern trends as the fashionista she was

The same "phone incident" and occult teen segment was recreated in the Live Action Tokyo Babylon movie as well, to some extent, and is a very memorable part of mini-plots...but you can see, just as well, how they can utilize and modernize that to be some cell-phone based chat service as apposed to a party-line for older telephones. Or...even yet some PC Internet social media based chat service.

The only thing I see from modernizing Tokyo Babylon is that it creates an Alternate Universe version of events that disassociates it with the apocalypses that is happening in X as their world is set to end in 1999.

So as much as I plan to love seeing an animated adaption of this, I know its not the same trio that I fell in love with when I read the manga through the first time.
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Ming Yi



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 207
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:21 pm Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
Saeryen wrote:
SHD wrote:
On the brighter side, depending on the progress of the animation/dubbing, there's a very slim chance for schedule conflicts, and Aoi Shouta getting replaced by someone more capable! (OK, this is just a dream, but hope never dies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)


Um...I’m a fan of Shouta Aoi. I loved his voice in My Next Life as a Villainess, and his songs for Kono Oto Tomare. I also listened to a song of his that was really good. I really wish you wouldn’t talk about him like this.

Aoi is a perfectly good singer. And he has a nice voice. And he's also a very bad voice actor. This is not a judgement on his character, or on you for liking him. This is just my opinion on his talents (or lack thereof), which I think I should be allowed to voice. I'm sure there's something or someone that I'm a fan of, which you dislike and think is not very good. And that is fine.

Saeryen wrote:
As a whole, we need to be a lot kinder to voice actors. Most of them are good people and they work so hard to give us memorable characters by voicing them.

And sometimes they work very hard and are still not good, and one is left wondering what could have been with a better, or more suitable, actor in the role. This doesn't mean the voice actor is a bad person, or that they're not working hard. It just means they're not very good actors, or at lest not suited to the characters they play. It's a thing that happens.


Honestly, the criticism is fair. Shouta Aoi has always been a singer foremost, even before he entered the anime industry. If memory serves me right, he managed to gain a strong fanbase after entering anime and hitting it big with UtaPri, because prior to that his singing career wasn't doing so well and his debut album charted below the top 100 on Oricon. I've seen his live acting in the Persona 3 musicals and the TV drama Real Fake and, well... that's all I have to say. But King Records is involved with the anime's production, so that probably explains why he and Nana Mizuki are getting the push.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:46 pm Reply with quote
Re: Why didn't they just use CLAMP's original outfits for the characters, I think it's simply because they just wouldn't fit with a modernized version of the show. I mean, I think they're great but also most of them, especially the more iconic ones, are just kind of... very much the product of their age. Anime smile + sweatdrop Perhaps older fans would find them nostalgic, but they probably wouldn't resonate with the younger teen demographics they're undoubtedly trying to appeal to. (As for why didn't they just order new designs from CLAMP, who knows. Maybe there's some legal tangles involved, or money issues.)

That said, this doesn't explain Subaru's onmyouji outfit, I mean come on, I understand not feeling up to the task of designing modern & fashionable female outfits (but then why did the chara designer even take the job in the first place, or why didn't he just plagiarize a tiny bit less blatantly) but an onmyouji outfit has to be one of the easiest ones to design.

Also, one would think this is one of those shows where collaborating with a fashion label would be a no-brainer (like how some shows like Gankutsuou collaborated with Anna Sui for character outfits for the last episode) so I wonder why it didn't happen.
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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1817
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:40 pm Reply with quote
I don't experience with Shouta other than the time he ended Pop Team Epic. Then again, Subaru's two most famous actors must be Yamaguchi who probably can't perform the same role again as it has been two decades as well as Sugita in X (I think there the character was around 25 judging by the wiki). Still when comparing Sugita's Subaru from other roles like Gintoki or Joseph, he used a softer tone. If this anime tries to adapt the liveaction movie or the sequel X, it would not be the first time an adult character gets a soft voice.
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VerQuality



Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:36 pm Reply with quote
residentgrigo wrote:
Fashion is also copyrightable


Huh. I could have sworn fashion was one of the few things that wasn't copyrightable - which is pretty much the only reason the fast fashion model exists.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3446
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:56 pm Reply with quote
VerQuality wrote:
Huh. I could have sworn fashion was one of the few things that wasn't copyrightable - which is pretty much the only reason the fast fashion model exists.

There's protection for designs in Japan (from here, original source Designs Act, 2006);
Quote:
Japanese protection law grants 20 years of design protection to registered designs. Protection for a design extends to the “shape, patterns, colors or any combination thereof,” or “graphic images in an article”

However, the criteria and cost are such that it's seldom applied for;
Quote:
A design can only be granted protection if it meets three criteria. First, a design that was known in Japan or another country before an application has been filed is not eligible for design registration. Second, a design that is shown in a distributed publication or was made available through electronic communications in Japan or another country before filing for an application is not eligible to be registered. Third, a design must have not been easy to create. More specifically, if “a person ordinarily skilled in the art of the design would have been able to easily create the design based on shape, patterns, or colors, or any combination thereof” it would not be granted protection...

...Under Japanese Design law, designers pay an annual fee based on the years of protection: first year to third year costs 8,500 yen ($84), fourth to tenth year costs 16,900 yen ($166.87), and the eleventh to twentieth years cost 33,800 yen ($333.74)
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residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 2418
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:39 am Reply with quote
Fashion is also protected in the EU for up to 5 years. Not so in the US but Japan is closer to Europe in all sorts of things than the US.
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