Forum - View topicTeenage main characters.
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poilk92
 Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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It is not my intention to create another complaint topic but instead a discussion of how you feel the fact that most anime stars teenagers or children effects anime.
My opinion is that it often stifles the medium and keeps it from tackling a broader spectrum of issues. Its not that there is anything wrong with teenage main characters but teenage issues are obviously very different than those of mature adults and thus it seems like anime is type casting itself as a medium that will not approach mature issues. I understand that anime is generally marketed to children or Otakus. No where is this more evident than in the mediums approach to sexuality. Either there is no sexuality (for children) or there is hypersexuality (for Otakus). Neither of these is a mature approach to the subject. This is just one example but I feel like a solid example of how teenage characters weaken the medium. In fact the propensity of teenage main characters creates a habit of immaturity so that even series with adult characters such as spice and wolf has the characters acting more like romantically inexperienced juveniles ... Well I don't want to ramble on too much so I will just stop myself right there and see if anyone else would like to discuss this |
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Bento-Box
 Posts: 1049 Location: Florida |
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I'll take the bait.
I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure where I stand on this type of issue. I think there are lots of titles out there that tackle pretty heavy issues while having teenage characters (Neon Genesis Evangelion, RahXephon, and Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 to name a few) but I wouldn't call them romance series. Are you specifically referring to sexual themes and relationships in a series and how that type of relationship and exploration is being hindered by the ages/personalities of teenagers simply because they are behaving as teenagers do? Or are you referring to a wide variety of shows including the action and paranormal type genres? In response to Spice and Wolf, I always thought Lawrence and Horo were cute together. I thought they had a playful relationship that wasn't immature. An immature relationship that comes to mind is... well... those found in most harem shows where the characters are not only over the top, but don't respect privacy or just flat out throw themselves at the male lead. There was something innocent yet complex to Horo and Lawrence's relationship. Personally, I don't feel uncomfortable watching a series about teenagers. I just kinda take it all in stride. If the plot seems interesting enough, I'll watch it as long as it keeps me interested regardless of the age of the characters unless I think there is something morally unjust or like I could be thrown in jail for watching it. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I definitely don't agree with this. I really don't see how having a teenage of child lead roll limits the themes of the story. There are plenty of examples where anime has had young lead characters while still taking on mature subjects. Just look at Now and Then Here and There the main character is obviously young, I would guess 12-14 maybe, yet the show takes on some very mature content. It deals with the issue of war showing the the psychological and physical impact it has on people. It illustrates the short comings of military states. And it even involves rape on a shockingly revealing level. And that's not the only one that I can name. There's FLCL, which discusses sexual maturity. Grave of the Fireflies, which shows the horrors of war. Gankutsuou, which looks at the rights and wrongs of justifying revenge and politics. Serial Experiments Lain, which involves sexuality/philosophy/morality/and sociology. Beck, takes on sexuality in a fairly mature manner. Sky Crawlers, discusses war/sexuality/ and desensitization. Neon Genesis Evangelion, which involves sexuality/philosophy/maturity/religion/ and politics. And that's just to name a few. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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So, saving the world is no longer a mature issue? Whatever body they have hardly matters. It's anime, and the mentality given doesn't have to match the body. You know, I'm sure you'll get along really well with another user who keeps using that word spontaneously. |
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vastoceans
 Posts: 107 |
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Spice & Wolf - juvenile/romantically inexperienced characters? Were you and I watching the same show? They were hardly a "OMG her hand is so close... should I hold it? I'm scared!" kind of pairing. They didn't shy away from physical contact at all for the vast majority of the series - how could they when side-by-side in that little cart with so much winter around them? Even adult pairings take awhile to develop - what's the point of the series if they're going at each other from episode one? They both had compelling reasons not to fall in love that were touched on and hinted at throughout the entire series.
Anyway, the core of it is most likely what Megiddo alluded to. Teenagers sell. Reason being? Probably a combination of the fact that young people themselves find the content easy to relate to and adult fans are not all automatically put off by the all-too-common reoccuring theme of anime - "Youth". Entertainment is often used as a means to/of escape and release to begin with. On the other hand, try selling Hataraki Man or NANA to teenagers - you probably won't. I'm not really sure what kind of "mature themes" you think are missing - is it the act of sex itself? If it's just "mature themes" in general, plenty of titles featuring teenagers touch on those. I'll add Now and Then, Here and There and Saikano as examples to Bento's list above. I'd also add: Thank god titles like that aren't saturating the market; I don't think my heart could take it. If you just want the characters to have sex or do drugs without all the shyness and build-up, try hentai or eroge. All that said, I really wish Rock and Revy would just get it on already. Jesus. Edit: Didn't see Mushiman's list until after posting, but a hardy seconding of those titles as well. |
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Bento-Box
Posts: 1049 Location: Florida |
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to Poilk's defense, I'd say that he's not proposing all series have sexual themes that are heavier or that they do drugs, etc. And I don't think he's talking about "saving the world" either. That's why I wanted a little clarification before blowing steam.
I know that, in America, when people think about anime, they assume that it's intended for kids because: 1) Cartoons are for kids 2) Young characters couldn't possibly be for adult entertainment? (not saying adult like 2 a.m. skinimax presentations "adult", but generally for people who are not children) I think, in that respect, because the industry does heavily focus on teenagers in shows that aren't really shows you would find on a Saturday Morning Cartoon run in America, that it does affect the people who are and AREN'T watching it. People see young girls wearing skimpy clothing (or, in some cases no clothing) and wonder if the person watching is into that sort of thing and if it's "healthy", etc. There may be some people completely turned off to it because of the amount of fan service and teenagers in the shows when they would otherwise watch it and like it had it been more "adult" geared (again, not skinimax adult themed). I think teenagers are used for a variety of reasons: 1) It's no secret teenagers around the age of 16 and 17 are more attractive than 30-year-olds or even people in their twenties. Sometimes, people can't even tell the difference in age anymore with the way real teenagers are dressing and acting. It's scary when I think that I may be raising a daughter one day who will want to wear mid drifts and get piercings... 2) If the subject matter is more attractive, they will sell more product. 3) Kids look up to them and teenagers can relate to them - that's a win/win situation for marketing 4) Teenage years are vital moments of development that could be interesting to show or parallel with other situations. |
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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You are talking about sky, when someone wants series about Earth. Showing working life, problems with finding a lifetime partner is a mature issue too. Not in that context, that cause otaku's nosebleed, but just things that won't be interesting for teenagers, because they aren't their problems yet. I'm aware of the fact that anime is targeted mostly to teenagers, so even more I appreciate shows that focus on adults- Honey and Clover, Maison Ikkoku, Hataraki Man, Oruchuban Ebichu . The series where characters grow up in both context are rare gems (RoV, Oniisama E) |
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MorwenLaicoriel
 Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
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I do wish that more anime had adult characters as the leads, just because it's nice to see some different perspectives. (For example, one of the things I liked about Shiki was that the main cast was pretty much split between characters in their teens and characters in their 30s.)
That being said, I do agree that you don't need to have adult characters to cover heavy themes. One of the reasons I got into anime in the first place was that I loved animation, but was generally irritated by the assumption that cartoons had to be immature and only for kids in the west. |
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naninanino
 Posts: 680 |
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This is definitely an extension to what I said in another thread, but personally I don't think problems with work, family, finance, health and whatever else are very exciting themes. Perhaps for a drama series, but I don't want to see that stuff mixed up with whacky anime stories. It's better to keep it simple and focus on other things. edit: typo Last edited by naninanino on Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Haterater
 Posts: 1744 |
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Who said they have to have "whacky anime stories." I would see no problem if there was more anime like what EireformContinent was talking about. And I like the idea of an adult tackling things like work, family, finance, and health without resorting to fantasy elements. It'll be different and open up more audiences. We need more anime like that.
When you watch live-action shows that tackle these elements, do you just brush them off? Not to mention live-action shows have the type of variety we are talking about. The "whacky," fantasy, non-fiction, adult themes, etc. Why can't we let anime be this way? There aren't enough shows that go that way and its sad that they don't have the ratings. But the idea of wanting more anime like this shouldn't be brushed aside because it isn't the norm and "boring." |
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Bored_Ming
 Posts: 242 Location: The Edge of ...... |
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Since I'm an old fogy I find most real teenagers to be immature brats. Finding a teenager that can deal with issues in an adult fashion is extremely rare in real life. So, to me, its not surprising to see a fictional character behave in the same manner. This is why I tend to gravitate to Seinen and avoid Shonen. There are a few exceptions to that rule but I find it works for me.
I will put up with a whiny immature character if there are signs of development. That change and discovery can create drama and interest. But that comes down to developing a qood narrative with is generally lacking in many anime shows. This season Level E offers us a mature acting teenager lead. I'll be interested to see how that goes. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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If the depictions of romance in Spice and Wolf appeared like inexperience to you then you are completely wrong. Both of the main characters have a goal which takes precedent over having a romance but since they are thrust into the role of husband and wife on occasion they tease and attempt to one up each other. Somewhere with all the teasing the two did find some real emotion. Calling that relationship immature makes me wonder what the hell qualifies as mature to you. Also the whole issue with age of anime characters is arbitrary since it ignores that story and context presented by an anime. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I think some of you guys are missing the forest for the trees in regards to what the OP is trying to say. Some of his examples may have been better chosen (especially Spice and Wolf), but his general argument is what I think we should be discussing here.
To me, Noein is a good example of kids doing kids things and adults doing adult things, and both working well together in weaving a good story. Another example I like is NGE. Yes, the main characters are all teens, but while they have central roles in the story, the adults frame those roles, and the story itself is handled in a reasonably adult manner. But what I think the OP is saying is that in many cases, the use of teens as main characters limits the sophistication of the story, especially when the adults have a highly tangential, nonsensical, or non-existant influence in the story. This is not *always* the case, but it is the case often enough to be noticable. I know I certainly notice it (I'm sure my age plays into that). Personally, I'd like to see more anime where the main characters are adults dealing with adult situations rather than children (teens) dealing with adult situations, often badly or unconvincingly. I think the OP was also suggesting that this high number of anime focused on teens or younger contributes to sustaining the perception of anime being solely for children or otakus. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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I think it's very possible to tackle many different mature subjects without the cast of the anime being adults.
Two examples of this are Bokurano and the upcoming Hourou Musuko. In American animation, adult humor is often hidden so that visually the show may be for kids but there is underlying humor that kids won't be receptive to, but adults will and can find themselves enjoying a show for kids. This is a marketing tactic that is somewhat similar to anime, but Japan takes a different approach to it: Japan does not need to hide the adult content; instead their approach is to intermix it into the story and make a very complex relationship between child characters and adult themes. Unlike American cartoons, anime has no need to provide eye candy to children, since there is plenty of children's shows in Japan that are geared specifically for them (animated or otherwise). Anime has plenty of eyecandy for adults, better known as fanservice, so when anime makes itself obviously adult entertainment, it does it plainly and openly. The aforementioned shows above rely on complex topics, but instead of eye candy there is drama that requires a mature mind to take in the full message. Both shows have pre-teen and young teen characters but we see topics that deal with philosophy and sexuality that would not be fully realized by viewers in those age groups also. Perhaps the fact that children are living these issues in the anime increases the maturity and impact because the struggle might cause US the viewer to reflect on the kinds of struggles we had when we were that age: something only adults can experience. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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I think that the perception of anime being for kids and otaku is because of people like the OP not because of the ages of fictional characters.
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