Forum - View topicPhysical Emulators vs. Software Emulators: RetroN 5 vs RetroArch
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Dessa
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NOTE: This thread is to be purely discussing the case presented, and the legal (and possibly moral) standing of the products in question. It is not to involve where to get said products, or the ROMs to use software emulators.
For reference source (Joystiq) Terms defined: Emulator: A piece of hardware and/or software designed to act as another piece of hardware and/or software. In this case, (a) video game system(s) Physical Emulator: Specifically, in this case, the RetroN 5, any emulator that is a physical device requiring physical copies of games to play. Software Emulator: A computer program that allows you to play games on your computer. Some require physical copies of games, others allow (or require) use of ROMs. ROM: A file that contains the coding for a game, which allows you to play the game without actually having the game (or on a system which is not compatible with the game's format, like a cartridge game on a computer). Patch: A file that updates/changes a program. In this case, a file that will change coding in the game. Usually these are to translate a Japanese game, correct (and/or change) the translation on an English game, or to fix bugs in the game. So, the Retron 5. I have a lot of friends online who have one, and swear up and down by how awesome it is. It'll play Famicom, NES, Super Famicom, SNES, Master Drive, Genesis, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, and Game Boy Advance games, all on one system. I'm pretty sure it won't play ROMs, but you can install patches, so if you have Japanese games, you can play them in English, or play "fixed" versions of badly translated English games. Apparently, however, it uses coding from software emulators (specifically the article names the Genesis Plus GX, SNES9x Next, FCEUmm, and VBA Next). Now, as a note, unless the emulator is stealing code, software emulators are not illegal. If they get around security functions, they could be, but in and of themselves, they're not. ROMs, on the other hand, are, which is why most emulator sites won't even point you to where to find them. For example, I've been toying around with PCXS2, which is a PS2 emulator. It does not play ROMs (to my knowledge, at least), and you have to have a copy of your PS2's BIOS to make it work (BIOS not included, since that is copyrighted, and you have to get that for yourself). I'm playing with it, for the same reason some people get the RetroN 5: patching them to play differently. In my case, I want to try out the Xenosaga undub, which is a patch that lets you play the English Xenosaga Episode I, but with the Japanese voices (Hoshi Souichiro, voice of chaos, is my favorite seiyuu ever). Now, while most gaming companies don't exactly look favorably on emulator makers (I remember, back in the day, when there was a PS1 emulator sold commercially, and Sony tried suing them. Don't remember who won, though), as I pointed out, the coding usually isn't illegal, and is often protected under various statues and licenses. Which these emulators are (see the article, it goes into legalese that is beyond me). So if the RetroN 5 is using their coding, violating all of the licenses listed in the article, it could go to court, which will be an interesting look into the legalities of emulators, and what the game companies are going to do in reaction. What do you guys think? I threw up a poll for the situation in general, but please still comment on this specific case. For me, if the RetroN 5 is using stolen code, then they're in the wrong. The emulator makers aren't exactly "innocent", but if they've followed correct procedure to get the right licenses for their code, then they're in the right. |
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HereforUpdates
Posts: 23 Location: Florida |
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This is tough (as in the poll, not the discussion). I could pick the top 3 and give a reason for each of them. As for your quote
I also agree, but I don't dislike emulator makers making their own software to play the game if they're not using stolen code. |
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Fluwm
Moderator
 Posts: 1625 |
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The term that most needs to be defined here is "appropriate."
Assuming you mean something along the lines of, "which method of emulation has the most merit/value," I have to go with pure software emulation of roms/isos, for the simple fact that hardware degrades -- sometimes rapidly. Cartridge-based games will start to fail after a decade or so; disc-based games will deterioriate even faster, as they'll scratch themselves up over time due to (unavoidable) microvibrations. The only video game format that's relatively resilient here is the blu-ray disc... which runs into the problem of most BRD games being incomplete -- you're not gonna find any DLC or patchdata on those discs. But in terms of faithfully replicating the original experience... I think it depends on the platform. In most cases, software emulation + original controller (or a replica of the original controller) is ideal. But that's not always the case. Nintendo's software emulators for the WiiU and NSO, for example, have a lot of issues, especially with N64 games. In terms of legality, they're all pretty iffy. |
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gsilver
Posts: 765 |
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I know that this isn't exactly what's being asked in the poll, but something that uses FPGA for cycle-accurate emulation like the Mister project or the Analogue systems is really the way to go. Whether or not that requires original cartridges depends on the implementation.
I find it unconscionable to pay scalper prices on retro games, and I suppose that every modern commercial release these days is "Software Type 2" as you define it, unless it's a remake/remaster like the new Suikoden HD release. If you've got the carts, it might be fun to plug them into a device, but the original systems do have a finite lifespan. I know that both my Saturn and multiple PS1s and PS2s all failed. There isn't much of a case for "Software Emulators Type 1" as that's basically just CD-based systems with file systems readable by PCs, but I can't think of any that exclusively read off of CDs. Also, CDs are notoriously fragile, prone to both disk rot and scratches. Even cartridges with battery backup are likely to fail, so however 'fun' it is to work with tangible products, there's always the risk that they'll break. And also, well, an overwhelming majority of retro games have no modern commercial release, and I'd never argue that all of those should simply be lost to time, but can and do support modern releases when available. But I don't really like things like the stand-alone physical retro-style consoles, as I have entirely too many boxes under my TV, and their emulators often aren't very good. Even better ones the SNES classic kind of get neglected because I don't have the spare HDMI ports. My modern TV has, well, modern devices, and recently tracked down a CRT for my Mister. The CRT has... two inputs. Maybe someday, I'll track down a real Sega Genesis to relive the old days, but I dunno if I will. The mister plays Sonic just fine, and I've got several different official Sega Genesis collection releases on my more modern systems. I actually kind of just prefer getting physical versions of classic games for just my favorites and treat them as display pieces on the shelf. I have zero interest in storing a full 'collection' of everything I liked from the past, and if I'm playing something like Guardian Heroes, I'd want to play it in English, but boy howdy is the American box art awful... so I've got the Japanese Saturn version on my shelf, and I turn on the Xbox Series if I want to play it, which got a quite serviceable remaster on the 360 that is backwards compatible. |
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