Forum - View topicAMVs
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ZahmiraV
 Posts: 243 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada |
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It has been stated, quite clearly, that fansubs are illegal, as they should be. So are AMVs (anime music videos) not illegal as well? You are taking someone else's work (the anime and the music), and altering it.
I don't think they should be illegal, as I make them, and I don't believe that they are illegal as animemusicvideos.org would most likely not be up and running if they were. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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It's illegal, one way or another because 1) you're using copyrighted footage, and 2) you may be using copyrighted music.
I think they pretty much fall under the fansub thing there. There are tons of fansub sites up and running, alongs with bittorrent sites, but that doesn't make them any less illegal. |
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king_micah
 Posts: 994 Location: OSU |
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AMVs, can sometimes be considered fair use for parody purposes.
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ZahmiraV
Posts: 243 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada |
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Perhaps studios don't care as much about AMVs, since they do act more like advertising for the anime anyway. You can't exactly watch an AMV inplace of the anime.
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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well, if (im?)properly done, you can squeeze all the major plot points for a single anime into a 5 minute AMV, thus fully eliminating the need for seeing the series... ... but even then, 5 minutes of video isn't a replacement for 600 minutes of video, unless the other 595 minutes is dead air. ;) i'd say RIAA would be more concerned about the AMVs than anime companies, though. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Y'know, I was actually pondering this myself at AWA. They had an ADV panel and an AMV contest back-to-back in the same ballroom...led me to wonder about how companies viewed AMVs...but then I got distracted by this hilarious Lupin III video done to Michael Jackson's "Smooth Criminal."
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EMY23-23
 Posts: 150 Location: New York |
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I do think that AMVs work great for advertising. I myself have been introduced to many new anime series by watching AMVs based on it.
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RantingOtaku
Posts: 219 Location: Sudbury, Ontario, Canada |
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- as long as you aren't making any money off it, I don't see a problem, the companies should be glad their product is getting known to a larger audience.
- If I remember correctly, you can use video footage, but it can't be really HQ stuff, has to be a little less than VHS quality... sort of like the RIAA not bitching too much about mp3's at first because it was an "inferior mode of data delivery" 
- If I was a musician, I'd be more than happy to share my tunes to be used in an AMV, makes my stuff more known, which would 'hopefully' convince people to buy it, allowing me to make more, of course, I'd be an indie artist, so I could avoid the labels and their BS |
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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That there is the main argument fansubbers have. |
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VegettoEX
 Posts: 107 Location: New Jersey |
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As an AMV editor, myself, I first-hand know that we have a lot to take into consideration. It's not that anime companies don't know about AMVs (they're WELL aware of them, and have even hired a few editors such as Vlad Pohnert to edit trailers for them)... it's that they CAN'T say anything about them.
This question actually come up a lot at AMV panels... is it illegal? Why aren't we shut down? The best answer we give is a great parallel I've been told in the past. It's the MAT3K paradox. Lots of people use the MAT3K-style to do their own parodies. This style and format is legally owned by the people who own MAT3K. In order to keep your copyright (or trademark), you MUST defend it if you find it is being used / stolen. This is why the MAT3K owners constantly say "DON'T TELL US!!" when they hear others are using the format; they like it, but legally, they'd be required to shut everyone down if they wanted to keep their legal ownership. Anime cons obtain a special license from the music industry to allow them to play copyrighted music at cons, so that covers that. Anime companies look the other way for the reasons outlined above, plus, like mentioned, it's fantastic free advertising. TECHNICALLY, yes. It's illegal once it leaves your hands. We're taking copyrighted music and copyrighted video; once it leaves our hands and is displayed in a public setting (like an anime con), we're breaking the law. It's OK to edit your own video, edit your own audio, watch it at your house, and even invite some friends over to watch it at your house... it's when it leaves your hands that the law is being broken. For the time being, the RIAA is more concerned with 3-6MB digital MUSIC files, rather than music being stolen from 20-100MB digital VIDEO files. At the same time, anime companies are looking the other way. We're running down a thin grey line, but it's working for now ^^;;. |
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JSeabolt
 Posts: 8 Location: DigiPen! |
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" 'Copy from one source and it's plagarism, copy from many sources and it's research.' We're copying from the anime and the music, therefore it's research."
This was from the Animemusicvideos.org forum at one point. (Sorry, don't remember who posted it. Or the exact quote, for that matter. The original wording was much better...) And even funnier: "Legal fansubs!" |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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Well, yeah, that's a legal consideration as well. It COULD be considered fair use if you use a public domain song (anything from before 1924, some things before 1970, a few things even after then...) or get explicit permission from the author to use the song for that purpose. Also, you could have a strong case for fair use by using no more than 30 seconds of any given anime. (30 seconds, of course, isn't a set definition of "fair use", but instead is just a recommended guideline. Sometimes 30 seconds might not be considered fair use, or 5 minutes might BE considered fair use. Yay legally undefined areas.) Alternatively, one could ask permission from the anime company and be granted it, once again doing away with the need for legal considerations. So, yes, the possibility of perfectly legal AMVs does exist. Legal fansubs could too, with permission from the Japanese company.. but I only know of one group who has actually gone out of their way to talk to the Japanese companies about their product (there may be others, I suppose) but nothing significant has arisen from that discussion yet. |
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JSeabolt
Posts: 8 Location: DigiPen! |
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Yeah, you have a point there on the legal issues. Hadn't thought of those...
From what I've seen of AMV's, though, I'd estimate the number of legal AMV's to be in the one-digits or so... And now that you mention it, I remember something about some company that had a by-request fansubbing branch, which they later dropped. I could be getting some of the details wrong, but I think it was one of the well known companies... And you say that quote has some actual legal basis? How so? I'm pretty sure it was posted as a joke... (Admittedly, I don't know too much detail about copyright laws, so I wouldn't know) |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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ADV Fansubs? No, no no... They were a product line created by ADV for a sub-only VHS line... which then died out quickly. No, I'm talking about a fansub group that approached a Japanese company for the permission to translate a certain product for free and distribute it online to a niche community (a small segment within the anime community) for free. I don't know what the outcome of their talks was, but given the length of time since I heard anything, I'd assume they were unsuccessful. Things had been going well, or so I thought.
Fair Use is legally existant. It's what college students (and above) use all the time while doing research... and it's also what they regularly get in trouble for, because someone thinks that it isn't "fair use". There are a lot of things that determine fair use or not.. and in the end, it's hard to say what, exactly, counts for fair use, since there's no legal definition of how much constitutes fair use. Instead, it's based around "What was it used for?" and "Was it intended for profit?" and similar questions. |
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