Forum - View topic
INTEREST: BL Manhwa Artist Haesin Young Threatens Legal Action Against Manga Piracy Site Mangagogo




Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sherris



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 245
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Good luck with that... If such sites are still alive, it means it's impossible to take them down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ErikaD.D



Joined: 09 Jun 2019
Posts: 285
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:54 pm Reply with quote
Although I'm not supporting piracy, if all of manga piracy sites were shuting down, it would be not just more harder -- but more inaccessible to read mangas. In fact, most of legal manga sites are region blocked(including Shonen Jump) and yesterday, MangaPlus's desktop website and app has loading issues for more than hours(it's a mess). Like living in The Real World, reading mangas legally is still hard. Sad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 2098
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:49 pm Reply with quote
ErikaD.D wrote:
... and yesterday, MangaPlus's desktop website and app has loading issues for more than hours(it's a mess).

Might be because a lot of chapters got updated and everyone is trying to read, noticed because saw the massive influx of updates to MangaPlus titles yesterday on the site I frequent(they don't upload any official scans, in case of MP they do upload the chapter links, but those links point to the chapters on MP...).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:24 pm Reply with quote
People reading something for free does not equal missed customers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Twage



Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 327
Location: Astoria, NY
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:20 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:
People reading something for free does not equal missed customers.


Did you read what the author wrote? It's about money, but it's also about respect.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1277
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:39 pm Reply with quote
And obviously, they do not respect her.

This is sad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kirki



Joined: 11 Jun 2019
Posts: 92
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:03 pm Reply with quote
It's sad, but if she can't earn a living she should probably stop. If making manhwa takes too much of her time to work on something that can support her and if she feels demotivated and cannot accept her work being uploaded for free, then she should stop producing such work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FiendHunter



Joined: 02 Dec 2019
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:26 pm Reply with quote
Kirki wrote:
It's sad, but if she can't earn a living she should probably stop. If making manhwa takes too much of her time to work on something that can support her and if she feels demotivated and cannot accept her work being uploaded for free, then she should stop producing such work.


So what you're saying is, "if you can't make a living out of working for free, then do it"? Is that it? Because that's exactly the point, if all the people reading her manhwa illegally paid to read it, she could earn a living from it.

As I understand, there IS an official english version available for purchase, so if you can't afford it, you should be the one stopping from trying to access/download it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
capt_bunny



Joined: 31 May 2015
Posts: 223
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:37 pm Reply with quote
I want to say the artist is fully right. At the same time hard to when there are many people who want to buy but can't due to not available in their country. Another thing is the price too. I've only read many complaints about the pricing....

Please don't say that I think it's a good thing to pirate. I am saying that there are many reasons on the whys. In the end, the solution is to have it more easy access. A lot of readers from countries they can't get into always wish they could give their money but can't. I wish there easier ways for everyone to support the authors/artist.

I hope there will be an easier way for readers soon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 4909
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:43 pm Reply with quote
No one argues about the morality of illegal uploads. This whole post is just sparking a pointless argument with her fans, and yes, even pirates are still fans. She's also going to be wasting her own time and resources trying to fight pirates.
Quote:

You said you uploaded for people with no money. The result threatens the artist's livelihood. Thanks to you, I became a beggar.

So again, she's spreading this falsehood that piracy threatens an artist's income. I hope her fans have pointed out that while there is no evidence that pirates media costs industries any money, there is evidence that it actually boosts sales in several industries.

Quote:
Illegal users tell me many reasons. To convince me. Why? Because you do not want to admit that you are a criminal. Do not justify your crime.

If my cartoon isn't worth reading, and it's expensive, don't buy it. It's a very simple matter. My cartoon is not free. Do not deceive me and readers


Again, why does she care what they even say? Yes it's disrespectful but it's far more healthy to ignore them. Pirates are gonna either pirate, or not read the product at all. It's as simple as that. No money is lost, nothing is actually "stolen". Digital piracy isn't a loss like it would be of a bookstore was robbed. No one is deceiving anyone. People will hide the fact that they pirate due to legal reasons but they're not pretending to anyone that they're moral. Even pirates that do it due to no official way to read it being available to them (in the other words, MOST pirates) don't really make any effort to pretend it's moral. This is a really weird rant she's having.

It she wants to punish criminals that's fine, but it's also a waste of time and resources when it comes to piracy. The music industry and movie industry here in the US showed us this during the 00s. People really just need to accept privacy as a reality, and also accept that it doesn't actually hurt sales anyway. People pirate either because they can't afford it, it's not available legally to them, or because they're jerks that don't want to pay even though they can. None of these people will pay money even if the pirated copies didn't exist. People that can't afford to...can't afford to. People that don't have it legally available CAN'T buy it even if pirated versions didn't exist. And people that are jerks will simply pirate something else or find something else to do with their time. It's as simple as that - people that pirate are unlikely to spend money even if the pirated copies didn't exist. No money is lost.

Being mad about this is weird as long as no one charging money for the pirated copies. In which case she should be mad at whoever is selling and not the people reading. Instead they should focus on solving the reasons WHY people pirate. Like making it available in more regions. That has proven to greatly reduce piracy. Making it more affordable of course also helps. Spotify helped solved those two issues in the music scene. Steam drastically reduced PC game piracy by making games easily accessible globally with regional pricing. But you can't solve the issue for everyone so pirates will always exist to some degree. But either way no money is actually lost so it's best to just ignore the pirates and not stress over them. This is just bad for her health more than anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Kirki



Joined: 11 Jun 2019
Posts: 92
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:44 pm Reply with quote
FiendHunter wrote:
Kirki wrote:
It's sad, but if she can't earn a living she should probably stop. If making manhwa takes too much of her time to work on something that can support her and if she feels demotivated and cannot accept her work being uploaded for free, then she should stop producing such work.


So what you're saying is, "if you can't make a living out of working for free, then do it"? Is that it? Because that's exactly the point, if all the people reading her manhwa illegally paid to read it, she could earn a living from it.

As I understand, there IS an official english version available for purchase, so if you can't afford it, you should be the one stopping from trying to access/download it.


My point is that if, under ANY circumstances, your work does not get you profit, and you are not okay with that, because it's not a simple hobby but your means of living, then you should stop. The fact that she could potentially make a living doesn't mean that she actually does, and I doubt that she can afford to wait until piracy as a practice stops. It won't stop, and it is common knowledge that it exists. Some works are more affected than others by it, and some don't mind that much but if the writer gets to the point of saying "I lost my motivation" then they desperately need a break. Of course she can go after anybody she wants legally, but until that's cleared, it wouldn't be wise to keep on going like this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4129
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:46 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:

It she wants to punish criminals that's fine, but it's also a waste of time and resources when it comes to piracy. The music industry and movie industry here in the US showed us this during the 00s


Which is interesting since the music industry going after places like napster and limewire really put a considerable dent in that particular sector of piracy. Yeah you can still pirate your favorite songs but it's a bit harder especially if you're looking for quality audio.

Kougeru wrote:

. People really just need to accept privacy as a reality, and also accept that it doesn't actually hurt sales anyway.


While I think it is difficult to say that it hurts sales it's a bit presumptuous to argue that it doesn't.


Kougeru wrote:

Being mad about this is weird as long as no one charging money for the pirated copies. In which case she should be mad at whoever is selling and not the people reading. Instead they should focus on solving the reasons WHY people pirate. Like making it available in more regions.


Easier said than done.

Kougeru wrote:

That has proven to greatly reduce piracy. Making it more affordable of course also helps. Spotify helped solved those two issues in the music scene. Steam drastically reduced PC game piracy by making games easily accessible globally with regional pricing.


I like to think that developers also introducing mechanics that locked illegal copies of their games after a certain point also helped.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:23 pm Reply with quote
Twage wrote:
ZiharkXVI wrote:
People reading something for free does not equal missed customers.


Did you read what the author wrote? It's about money, but it's also about respect.

I did read. All I'm saying is don't expect to be treated any differently even if these sites are taken down. More than likely the work fades into obscurity. It is possible that the market just isn't interested in this author's creation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 355
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:34 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
It she wants to punish criminals that's fine, but it's also a waste of time and resources when it comes to piracy. The music industry and movie industry here in the US showed us this during the 00s. People really just need to accept privacy as a reality, and also accept that it doesn't actually hurt sales anyway. People pirate either because they can't afford it, it's not available legally to them, or because they're jerks that don't want to pay even though they can. None of these people will pay money even if the pirated copies didn't exist. People that can't afford to...can't afford to. People that don't have it legally available CAN'T buy it even if pirated versions didn't exist. And people that are jerks will simply pirate something else or find something else to do with their time. It's as simple as that - people that pirate are unlikely to spend money even if the pirated copies didn't exist. No money is lost.


1 download = 1 lost sale was how companies used to try to quantify piracy damages when arguing in court all those years ago. Obviously it's completely impossible to prove such a ridiculous claim which is why it was always thrown out by the judges. But some people still state it as truth.

I think the correct approach to have is to not treat pirates as your customers. It's a losing battle and one not worth fighting. You can't shame someone into doing what you want. A lot of tech savvy creators and older creators who've been in their industries for decades have accepted it as part of the market. Witcher III's lead dev once said "We cannot force people to buy things. We can only convince them to do it. We totally believe in the carrot, not in the stick." And despite Witcher III having zero anti-piracy software and being very easy to pirate, it sold extremely well and is one of the most popular PC games out there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group