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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3083
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:06 pm Reply with quote
All you need to know about Puella Magi Madoka Magica is that Nanoha was released in America, a reviewer on ANN gave it a mediocre review a ton of people bitched about the review and then no one bought the series. I think Funimation is already going to put it out of print.

While I have not seen the second movie and I have seen the first movie, but I don't understand why people would call it confusing. I have only seen the first 10 episodes 10 years ago and I understood everything perfectly.

Eva 03 was built by the Americans and in transport to Japan it was infected by an Angel.

What I want to happen is that it's revealed that Shinji is a reincarnation of James Strang who than marries Asuka, Rei, Mari, Misato, and Kaworu (representing Strang's 5 wives) converts Nerv to the Strangite version of Mormonism, moves to Beaver Island, and takes over the entire Mormon church moving the temple in Salt Lake City to Beaver Island. This is due to my long held want for a harem anime to end with someone converting to a branch of Mormonism that allows polygamy (like the FLDS).

The only way to save anime is for people to become visionaries again. Over the past few years the biggest hits in America have been two remakes, DBZ without filler,a show about a band that barely plays music, a comedy about countries as homosexual men and a show nicknamed Code Trainwreck. Now some of them where good but the fact that where still talking about Evangelion isn't healthy for the anime industry. Look at Kazuya Tsurumaki, the guy has tremendous amount of talents, his been directing anime for over 10 years, and his directed 1 anime that has nothing to do with Hideaki Anno (not counting the cat Anno voiced).

Here's the problem with Tim's idea, Funimation is already doing that, Viz has just released some of their biggest hits on Netflix. If Tim's idea was right than we wouldn't have a problem, you can go on hulu or youtube and watch anime for free. The thing is that those same people who Tim think are people just waiting to support anime in their own way don't want to make any concessions. You either give them 1080p anime to download for free or your some evil corporation. Take the piracy effecting manga, if Viz decides to make their own aggregator website that gives away all of their manga they will lose 10's of millions of dollars in sales. The piracy websites make a fraction of the money the legit business does but since they don't pay for anything outside of web hosting they can make money.

Personally I don't think there's really anything anime companies can do.

Avatar made money because it was made by James Cameron, and it revolutionized how movies are shown. Now every major blockbuster outside of Rango is released in 3D. Anyone whose followed politics can safely say that no one really cares about the environment. That's why EPA is having the problem that it's having.


Last edited by Charred Knight on Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gamefan



Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:04 am Reply with quote
I'm wondering if Zac's seen episode 3 of Madoka.

Edit: I made this post while listening to the podcast and I think it's too late to delete it. But I take it back. >_>


Last edited by Gamefan on Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1458
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:02 am Reply with quote
At this point in time, I'd rather wait for Madoka to end before seeing any of it myself. I presume it probably isn't going to find too much appeal outside of the otaku market, for all the mentioned reasons, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad show. Or at least I hope it isn't.

Iron Man has often been described as underwhelming elsewhere but I haven't actually gotten around to watching it either. Curiously enough though, Wolverine seems to be getting better feedback. It may take some liberties from the original manga story but apparently the mix of a healthier dose of action and the use of a standard-yet-effective revenge/rescue plot does make for a far more entertaining work.

While I'm still waiting for all four of the new Evangelion movies before watching any of them...I would also like to see creators finally do something with the whole "humanity vs. God" concept in a far more straightforward manner. They could keep all the religious symbols or psychological elements intact and take the action into a more nuanced variation of the territory covered by, say, Gunbuster and -more recently- Gurren Lagann instead of simply going for a direct repeat of the old Instrumentality / Third Impact scenario.

Just noting that I share Tim's mild annoyance at region locks even if mentioning this isn't going to change anything about it.

Rather than necessarily asking for more visionaries, as Charred Knight has suggested above, I feel we need more mainstream works with tried-and-true execution, period. You can make the most creative show in the world, earn a bunch of awards and still see it turn into a commercial failure or niche product if it doesn't connect to a wider audience.

Taking risks is always desirable and admirable but it shouldn't be the lone guiding principle. Especially when most creators don't work on movies and, by extension, aren't in Miyazaki's or Oshii's position, where they can enjoy ridiculous budgets, lots of freedom and theatrical releases. We need to think about TV series or OVAs here too.

That's why as much as I've said Gundam Unicorn lacks a little uniqueness in spite of its great execution, it probably does represent the right way to go and what the industry actually needs. Not that the mecha genre is likely to ever reach Gundam Wing levels of popularity in the U.S. anytime soon, no, but my argument is you can apply the underlying thinking that has made Unicorn enjoy widespread success in Japan to other productions, as a way to connect to a larger audience. The specifics and scale will vary, sure, but I think there are more than a few general lessons that can be learned from its example. Even appealing to nostalgia isn't a bad thing if you do it well.

Then there's the same old question about how to change the business model and make the equation work from a purely financial perspective. While I don't have a comprehensive answer either, I do think many changes will have to come in due time, sooner or later, even if they aren't immediately obvious from our current position. Naturally, those companies that want to survive will inevitably be forced to adapt.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3083
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:22 am Reply with quote
Here's the thing though, you can't easily replicate Gundam Unicorn's success because they brought a mainstream author to make it. Its like saying that it would be much better if Steven King wrote light novels for Higurashi. Also the problem with trying to copy Unicorn means that where just going to get the same anime in franchises, no one is going to stick around if all they're getting is Gundam, Evangelion, and K-On.

As for the whole humanity vs God: no, just no, considering Japan's past with Christianity (It was banned for hundreds of years) do we really need to see more xenophobic anime?
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1458
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:01 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
Here's the thing though, you can't easily replicate Gundam Unicorn's success because they brought a mainstream author to make it.


Well, I see an opportunity that can be further exploited where you only see an obstacle tied to its own circumstances.

In other words, why shouldn't we try to replicate those circumstances or, more to the point, their consequences and impact? An analysis of the constituent elements that made Gundam Unicorn a success should include more than just the name and fame of the author, if we wanted to be accurate and comprehensive.

Thus I don't see how improving the quality of writing in anime -which is one thing that falls under the "tried-and-true execution" phrase I've used above- would ever be a bad thing. On the contrary, if bringing in mainstream authors or -perhaps more importantly- choosing to properly adapt already completed stories is what it takes, then let's do that. There's nothing wrong with expanding rather than contracting our perspective, when what we want is to reach a larger audience.

Never mind the fact this idea actually implies looking at many other factors neither of us have explicitly mentioned or discussed so far.

Quote:
Its like saying that it would be much better if Steven King wrote light novels for Higurashi.


That's only a part of the equation, as mentioned before, yet I don't think this is a bad thought at all. If such a thing made Higurashi better written and more of a mainstream work, then let's do that. But again, this isn't the only element worth taking into serious consideration.

Quote:

Also the problem with trying to copy Unicorn means that where just going to get the same anime in franchises, no one is going to stick around if all they're getting is Gundam, Evangelion, and K-On.


That's a matter of preference and interpretation. I think making the main properties stronger and more appealing to "normal" people is one way to make the whole industry benefit and, by extension, eventually provide more opportunities for taking those risks both of us can appreciate on an individual level.

It's better to start with small creative risks and proceed to larger ones later, rather than just extending the current status quo with no modifications.

Quote:

As for the whole humanity vs God: no, just no, considering Japan's past with Christianity (It was banned for hundreds of years) do we really need to see more prejudice anime about how awful Christianity is?


Let's be clear here: I don't particularly find that to be a problem on either a personal or intellectual level as far as fiction is concerned. Never have, never will. I would have to respectfully disagree with you about this.

Whatever you might say about the original Evangelion, all the religious symbols and imagery wasn't a real obstacle to its success in either side of the world. It is, unquestionably, a popular anime even outside of otaku circles.

I'm also not talking about -nor do I think Zac was suggesting this himself- literally bringing a strictly traditional interpretation of God into the story. The same concept can be handled in many different ways, both abstract and concrete, as long as it fits within the context of the show and happens to be well implemented. It's all a matter of how you choose to present things.

For the record, I'd also be the first to admit that our personal tastes and interests shouldn't all be limited to the mainstream, nor should all anime refrain from ever addressing potentially or allegedly controversial subjects. Again, this depends on what each of us wants or expects from works of fiction and, in fact, entertainment in general.


Last edited by nightjuan on Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:12 am; edited 7 times in total
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Nayu



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 676
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:05 am Reply with quote
I enjoyed the podcast. I think that Tim was on the money about fansubs. I think the problem is that the industry doesn't realize there is a difference between there being an audience for a show and a market for a show. An audience will watch, but a market will buy. A lot of the shows being produced are watchable, but do not meet the expectations of the viewers far enough to become marketable. I think the US industry shares some of the blame for this since they pumped money into the JP industry buying up everything and paying a premium for shows that just did not make the turn from watchable to buyable in the early to mid 00s. The industry rewarded mediocrity and thats what has tended to survive the market downturn due to having cash on hand.

Ugh, Skyline. I hated that movie. I see Tim and I don't share views on sci-fi at all. I felt bad paying for it in the first place. (I demanded a refund for Cloverfield too. That was painful.)

But I loved his take on Star Trek. (And I think I'd like Fringe, I wonder if it streams on Hulu or Netflix.... I'd watch it, but I don't think I'd buy it. Market vs Audience again.)

I love Joss Whedon. I love Doctor Who.

I think it would have been interesting to have asked Tim how he felt about the first reboot season of Who compared to the more recent ones. I think the Rose seasons with Eccleston were very British while the last two doctors have been more US-orientated, possibly due to the US being a larger market for merchandise/DVD/BD.

The last two podcasts have been fantastic. Thanks again Zac and Justin for hosting these shows.
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Animerican14



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 957
Location: Saint Louis, MO
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:17 am Reply with quote
(to those that were ready to jump the gun like me: listen at least until the 14:00 mark for the clarification of Zac's, Justin's, and Tim's feelings towards Madoka)

Hmm.... whenever Madoka's been watched by ANN staff, how is it done? Just by understanding the Japanese alone, without subs? Using some fansub group? It's at times like this that I really wish that Aniplex or someone provided subs for legal streaming, so that at least the first six episodes could get a proper review from the site.

Because really, most of what was judged harshly about the first two episodes was some silly otaku-oriented trolling on the part of SHAFT, Shinbo, and script-writer/creator Gen Urobuchi. It is only after having watched episode 10 that episodes 1 & 2 may look better to those that were initially really put off by them story-wise. Believe me, I didn't get excited myself by the first two episodes, and am no moe fan whatsoever. But by the end of the third, I was literally hooked, lined and sinker, and didn't give a damn anymore about the character design. (in fact, it's really come to grow on me.) From there on, it ditches whatever by-the-numbers, monster-of-the-week format you might've thought it would become*, and it quickly becomes character driven without adhering to mundane girl things. The initial demographic might've been all otaku, but I think the story is appealing and smart enough to seriously reach more than just them... it's actually a series that I want to really show to my older sister, who hasn't gotten into an anime since the mid 2000s. (and admittedly, there have been few recent series that i've really gotten into myself.)

*However, there will still be several uniquely designed witches and plenty more of the trippy art that Tim Maughn and company loved.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7997
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:56 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
All you need to know about Puella Magi Madoka Magica is that Nanoha was released in America, a reviewer on ANN gave it a mediocre review a ton of people bitched about the review and then no one bought the series. I think Funimation is already going to put it out of print.

Good luck finding a Nanoha A's set. Because they all sold out.

A good attempt, but... yeah, the facts don't add up to what you're saying Wink
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Ojamajo LimePie



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 706
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:23 am Reply with quote
For the love of God, these guys are idiots (and rather misogynistic!) Watch past the first episode! The first episode is NOTHING like the rest of the series, at all! Give it through Episode 3.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3083
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:45 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:
All you need to know about Puella Magi Madoka Magica is that Nanoha was released in America, a reviewer on ANN gave it a mediocre review a ton of people bitched about the review and then no one bought the series. I think Funimation is already going to put it out of print.

Good luck finding a Nanoha A's set. Because they all sold out.

A good attempt, but... yeah, the facts don't add up to what you're saying Wink


Kind of interesting that no one seems to want to keep it in print then.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7997
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:08 am Reply with quote
Yeah, you'd think Manga would want to print more of the End of Evangelion movie.
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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 3278
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:10 am Reply with quote
Zac,very nice save. I was about to go SSJ on Justin and british guy's ass, but your discalmer saved them.
Seriously, the simple fact that so many fools think Madoka is a normal little mahou shoujo anime for little kids prooves how much of a troll Gen is.
If you have not watched AT LEAST 3 episodes, you are not qualified to talk about this anime. That is a FACT, and anyone who says differently hasn't SEEN the first 3 episodes.

Let me put it this way: I am a priate. I pirate the shit out of anime. I have tera-bytes of anime on my HDD, and I don't buy anime. This show is so good I PREORDERED all 5 volumes.
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the Rancorous



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:15 am Reply with quote
Oh, wow! Zac's interpretation of Eva 2.22's dummy-plug scene struck me as extremely interesting; especially because I came across this particular discovery literally a couple hours before I listened to this pod-cast. Crazy!

Seriously, turn up the volume and listen closely, that's pretty crazy/cool! Twisted Evil
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JaffaOrange



Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:21 am Reply with quote
Ojamajo LimePie wrote:
For the love of God, these guys are idiots (and rather misogynistic!) Watch past the first episode! The first episode is NOTHING like the rest of the series, at all! Give it through Episode 3.


While I agree that the turning point of the series is at the end of episode 3 and it should be seen before someone makes an opinion about this show, I have to ask why. Why should someone have to watch up to episode 3 (a quarter of the whole series) before they can see what the show is about? Isn't that what the first episode should do? Ideally, opinions on a series should only be formed after the series has ended and you've watched it all but It's hard to blame someone if they've decided that a series isn't for them after watching the first episode. One would hope the first episode is a good indication of what the series would be.

In the case of Madoka, I was pleasantly surprised with the direction the anime took and am glad that I stuck with it. And even if I had not, I can always return to it if by chance everyone started saying how good it was getting.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3083
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:29 am Reply with quote
I should point out that Gunbuster did basically present the world as basically ruled by the Japanese. All but one of the major characters where Japanese, and the one non-japanese character's name is given in Japanese order and not western order. So I don't think Zac's theory is wrong, he definitely has pride in being Japanese.
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