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The Mike Toole Show - Gundam of the Century


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Zin5ki
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
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Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:34 pm Reply with quote
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If you're a Gundam-head, you probably nodded sagely, thinking of how we're sadly deprived of the magic of SD Gundam. You're not wrong—heck, I mentioned SD Gundam in one of my first ANN columns ever. Since then, it came back in print on DVD in Japan, and then went back out of print again.

A frustrating lacuna, I agree. The inexplicable rallying cry of 'Boppin' falls on too few ears these days. My fondness of those shorts is such that the super-deformed versions of Kamille and Sirocco shall always be their definitive incarnations in my eyes.
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:08 pm Reply with quote
Personally, I believe Tomino is the George Lucas of Japan with even worse track record. Of the stuff he's made that I've seen, I think only the original Mobile Suit Gundam series/movies, Heavy Metal L-Gaim, Turn-A Gundam and if we are counting manga, Crossbone Gundam to be actually good. Everything else for him is fun but not really good, (ZZ, King Gainer) a let-down of what could have been, (Char's Counterattack, F91, G-Reco) or outright terrible. (Zeta, Victory, Dunbine and it's sequels, Brain Powerd).

Of those, I said the Zeta remakes are of the second category as I think that the story should have been completely rewritten to make the new better ending for Kamille's story work better instead of lazily grafting it on to the original mostly unchanged TV story.


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IanC



Joined: 26 Sep 2004
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Location: Essex, England
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:21 pm Reply with quote
Zeta, terrible??

Your opinion sure, but terrible?
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Color2413
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Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:24 pm Reply with quote
I think you may be taking Gackt a bit too lightly.

This is my favorite live show of his: The 2003 "Waxing Moon" Tour --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAZq9x800Po

If you want just a taste, start at 15:02, where a certain song begins. Stick with it for 2 minutes 53 seconds, which marks the beginning of the most thrilling, breathtaking piece of stagecraft that I have ever seen in a live rock show.

As you might have gathered, I am a huge Gackt fan I have always thought that if David Bowie and Madonna had an Asian love child, he would have turned out exactly like Gackt. Smile
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John Thacker
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Joined: 28 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:51 pm Reply with quote
The recent Turn A Gundam North American sets had some nice anniversary interviews with a lot of people who worked on various Gundam projects, and it was amusing to hear all of them mention in more or less diplomatic ways that Tomino is "difficult to work with."
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
Posts: 538
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:05 pm Reply with quote
IanC wrote:
Zeta, terrible??

Your opinion sure, but terrible?

It is. Most of the protagonist cast is unlikable in not interesting way. The Titans are boring, one-dimensional antagonists (Jerid aside and he gets wasted in the end) who aren't even fun in a cackling supervillain way with no real plan. It's pacing drags. It's mecha battles are a monotonous blur. It has nothing really intelligent or insightful to say about war or humanity that other Gundams don't do better. It's tragedies are hollow. And it is above of all, deeply sexist. (Only Victory and Age are worse then it on that.)

I know that is an opinion that going to be vehemently disagreed with by the orthodox Gundam fandom. But I am of the belief that said fans aren't the best judges of their franchise especially the Zeon sympathizer crowd.


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MrBonk



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 178
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:27 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
Personally, I believe Tomino is the George Lucas of Japan with even worse track record. Of the stuff he's made that I've seen, I think only the original Mobile Suit Gundam series/movies, Heavy Metal L-Gaim, Turn-A Gundam and if we are counting manga, Crossbone Gundam to be actually good. Everything else for him is fun but not really good, (ZZ, King Gainer) a let-down of what could have been, (Char's Counterattack, F91 G-Reco) or outright terrible. (Zeta, Victory, Dunbine and it's sequels, Brain Powered).

Of those, I said the Zeta remakes are of the second category as I think as the story should have been complete rewritten to make the new better ending for Kamile's story work better instead of lazily grafting it on to the original mostly unchanged TV story.

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Lynx Amali



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:43 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
outright terrible. (Zeta, Victory, Dunbine and it's sequels, Brain Powered).


Dunbine's only terrible because of the awful subs though. The actual show's great. Rean is too, assuming one read the novels beforehand.

There's also Daitarn, Zambot and Xabungle, all of which are pretty great.

Also; Victory is terrible? I liked it more than IBO and everybody sings praise for that. Uso's probably the single character in the franchise with that high of a kill count to boot.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:55 pm Reply with quote
Zeta Gundam is my favorite chapter of the Gundam franchise, so to me, the Zeta Gundam movies are a double-edge sword. On the one hand, the movie trilogy proved that the series was still popular and well-regarded decades after it originally aired. The newly animated scenes were gorgeous and I was happy that Shigeaki Saegusa returned to compose new music, touching upon his old music for the series. It's like having Kikuchi returning for a Dragon Ball production. The music is so iconic and having even more in similar style was fantastic. I could take or leave the Gackt songs, some were good, others not so much.

But boy did it remove a lot of the plot. I can understand removing the repetitive Kamille/Fa arguments that just rinse and repeat, but the story suffered greatly by removing most of Jerid's development and the Dakar episode (Tomino probably wanted to simplify the Four arc by removing the Kilimanjaro episodes that led up to that episode, and so there was less reason to put that in because there was little excuse for Kamille to be back on Earth again). Basically the whole point of the series is that Dakar episode. Huge swaths of the rest of the story were removed, too, favoring new and improved action.

I wasn't really bothered by the voice acting scandal. Most of the better VAs returned to play their roles. But taking out so much of the story, the mix of old and new animation, and Tomino rewriting the ending to be "happier" were a few too many insults.

In short, the Zeta Gundam movies were only really good to prove that the series is still beloved. And with good reason. The complexities of the plot, the evolved mechanical design, better character dynamics, and darker tone really made it the best Gundam TV series.


Last edited by penguintruth on Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
Posts: 538
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:55 pm Reply with quote
Lynx Amali wrote:
Zeino wrote:
outright terrible. (Zeta, Victory, Dunbine and it's sequels, Brain Powered).


Dunbine's only terrible because of the awful subs though. The actual show's great. Rean is too, assuming one read the novels beforehand.

There's also Daitarn, Zambot and Xabungle, all of which are pretty great.

Also; Victory is terrible? I liked it more than IBO and everybody sings praise for that. Uso's probably the single character in the franchise with that high of a kill count to boot.

People are allowed to have dissenting opinions you know. Such as thinking that all those are legitimately bad or that the AU series that aren't Seed Destiny or Age are better then 90% of UC Gundam canon.
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Beltane70



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 2129
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:22 pm Reply with quote
Personally, I found Dunbine to be better(save some of the odd name choices of most of its American characters) than Gundam, but my favorite Tomino work will always be Space Runaway Ideon.
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kenrobinson1982



Joined: 22 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:24 pm Reply with quote
That Tomino story from Romi Park story is the best!
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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3094
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:11 pm Reply with quote
Beltane70 wrote:
Personally, I found Dunbine to be better(save some of the odd name choices of most of its American characters) than Gundam, but my favorite Tomino work will always be Space Runaway Ideon.


spoiler["At that moment, the Ide was invoked."]

<3
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 3346
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:49 pm Reply with quote
Lynx Amali wrote:


Also; Victory is terrible? I liked it more than IBO and everybody sings praise for that.


Well sure if you ignore some of the criticisms of the cast and the writing.....the latter of which makes season 2 an unwatchable mess towards it's second half.
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WatcherZer



Joined: 29 Dec 2016
Posts: 125
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:50 pm Reply with quote
San was indeed amazing, my favourite joke was when Sayla told Char off that just painting his suit a garush red wouldnt make it go faster, then her closing remark "and no painting it gold in future either".
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