Forum - View topicFinal Fantasy XVI Producer on the Series's Future
|
Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Animeeightoh
Posts: 23 |
|
|||
|
Not going to lie, I kinda rolled my eyes and sighed at the Expedition 33 question. People act like it brought turnbased back or something even though we have it in multiple games including the Atelier Series, Metaphor: ReFantazio, Like a dragon (rpg), Trails, dragon quest etc. But, "hey square enix, this indie game that sold 3 million units made a game I like, are you going to do the same?"
I also find it insulting to them, given the effort and time they put into their battle systems. The FF Remake series has one of the best battle systems in a RPG. They wanted an action styled game for 16 and got someone from the DMC series made exactly what they wanted to express in their game. Also, why does Square Enix have to be the victim of Expedition 33? How many people are going to ask CD Project Red this? What about Witcher 4 and Cyberpunk Orion. Hey thanks for making those games and we respect your artistic integrity but how about conforming to some indie game standards? Witcher 4 should be turned based! Wouldn't Night City be better if it was turnbased combat against gang members with guns and tech??? I know I'm making more of this than I should be but everyone targeting FF after that game is tiring and not fair to them. At least that's what I think. |
||||
|
||||
|
CreativelyFwrd
Posts: 99 |
|
|||
Happy to hear you enjoyed FF7 Remake and FF16's combat system and gameplay style. A lot of us old-time Final Fantasy fans didn't, though. People keep bringing up Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 because it flies in the face of what the modern Final Fantasy team has been beating their chest about for the past decade. About how turn-based in dead and no one wants it. Action combat is the way of the future. Etc. Then comes a no-name game from a no-name studio that does well despite all those claims. It essentially does what OG fans have wanted Final Fantasy to go back to since 15. So people were happy with it. I'm not sure if you're trying to use Clair Obscur's 3.3 million sales number as a dig against it but just for comparison Final Fantasy 16 sold 3.5 million copies after 2 years. No matter how you feel about the games themselves a new IP in the same genre from an unknown studio selling just as much as the latest Final Fantasy entry is kind of ridiculous. I've not played Witcher or Cyberpunk but as far as I know they were never turn-based JRPG combat so it wouldn't make sense for them to be compared to Clair Obscur. |
||||
|
||||
|
Fluwm
Moderator
 Posts: 1625 |
|
|||
|
Clair Obscur was also explicitly inspired by FFX, from what I remember reading.
|
||||
|
||||
Tunod Denrub
 Posts: 13 |
|
|||
I have only ever seen people SAY the Final Fantasy team said this. I have never actually seen the Final Fantasy team say this themselves. I also wish to point out that there is no one 'Final Fantasy Team', for that matter. (I mean, I've also seen a certain subset of gamers say turn-based is dead, but they can get bent.) |
||||
|
||||
An Unchosen One
 Posts: 206 |
|
|||
7R's combat is interesting on paper, but falls short in its execution (on top of replacing an actual ATB system for no good reason), and 16's combat is so shallow that the best word that comes to mind for it is just "functional". I haven't played Clair Obscure, so I don't know how it compares in that regard, but thinking about the action or otherwise real time RPGs I have played (e.g., Ys, Tales, Xenoblade), they definitely pale in comparison to those. |
||||
|
||||
L'Imperatore
 Posts: 1084 |
|
|||
|
I've seen way TOO many use Clair Obscur impressive sales to push "triumph of turn-based over active combat" narrative. Like it never occurs to them that it's because Clair Obscur is a genuinely good game (which helps good word-of-mouth) that happens to have turn-based system.[/i]
|
||||
|
||||
|
That Little Rapscallion
Posts: 150 |
|
|||
|
In a just world YoshiP would not be allowed within 100 feet of Final Fantasy 17's development team. I'm not sure why he's hanging out at AnimeExpo rather than working on 14 which has been hemorrhaging sub numbers and is now back down to the pre-WoW Exodus numbers of Shadowbringers but after FFXVI's underperformance and Dawntrail's overwhelmingly negative reception I hope the people who treat this man as God's Gift to Gaming have had an eye-opening epiphany. People can't keep riding on him salvaging a broken game a decade ago forever.
|
||||
|
||||
|
GoGoGoFalco
Posts: 57 |
|
|||
"As someone who was raised on turn-based, command-based role-playing games, I fully understand their appeal and understand what's great about them. But one thing that we found recently is that as graphics get better and better, and as characters become more realistic and more photo-real, is that the combination of that realism with the very unreal sense of turn-based commands doesn't really fit together. You have this kind of strange gap that emerges. Some people are fine with it. They're fine with having these realistic characters in this unreal type of system. But then on the other hand, there are people that just can't get over it. I mean, if you have a character holding a gun, why can't you just press the button to have the gunfire – why do you need a command in there?" https://wccftech.com/final-fantasy-xvi-producer-says-realistic-graphics-and-turn-based-combat-dont-fit/ “For the past decade or so, I’ve seen quite a number of opinions saying ‘I don’t understand the attraction of selecting commands in video games. This opinion is only increasing, particularly with younger audiences who do not typically play RPGs.. As I said, I believe I know the fun of command system RPGs, and I want to continue developing them, but I thought about the expected sales of Final Fantasy XVI and the impact that we have to deliver. https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/final-fantasy-16-ditched-turn-based-combat-to-appeal-to-younger-generations-producer-says/ Similar comments were made by Nomura and Kitase for FF7 Remake and turn-based "not working" for the game but I'm too lazy to go find them. |
||||
|
||||
Kougeru
 Posts: 5805 |
|
|||
Most people did enjoy Rebirth though. Don't play on easy and it becomes the absolute best combat they've had in FF. Far better than the bran-dead turn-based in games like Clair. You argue that "no one wants action combat" but that's literally what Clair is. It's not true turn-based combat. The fact that you can dodge and parry (things t hey didn't invent but people act like they did) ruin everything about "turn-based". It's a merger just like Rebirth's combat, just far worse and with much less thought required. And they're not a "no-game" studio. They're former ubisoft devs. And comparing it to ff16 is unfair. FF16 sold 3.5m on PS5. That was before the Xbox and PC releases were accounted for whereas Clair was on multiple systems from day 1 and was pushed heavily by fake-viral marketing |
||||
|
||||
|
Kougeru
Posts: 5805 |
|
|||
Greatly disagree with this fake on Remake. The combat is by far the best in any RPG. But you have to play on hard. Then it requires actually making use of the hybrid turn-based and real-time and it's the most thought-provoking and rewarding combat system out there. 16's though was just completely brain-dead beyond dodge and counter attack. |
||||
|
||||
TheRealMaria
 Posts: 123 |
|
|||
If people like turn-based combat then the turn-based combat is going to be a big factor in if it's a good game to them or not. Telling me Fortnite is a "genuinely good game that happens to have FPS combat" doesn't mean anything to me because I hate FPS games so I'm not going to play it no matter how good you claim the game actually is. People consider Clair Obscur good in part because it is turn-based. If it was an action game people wouldn't be praising it the same way or comparing it to Final Fantasy in the first place. As it stands right now Clair Obscur is the most polished and biggest budget game out there that has turn-based combat. That used to be Final Fantasy's mantle in the PlayStation days where they were some of the most visually impressive and technologically advance games on those systems when they came out. It disproves Naoki Yoshida's previous comments about high-end graphics not fitting with turn-based gameplay. |
||||
|
||||
|
Handyman 68
Posts: 37 |
|
|||
By default no battle system that relies on stagger mechanics can be the best because it makes every fight a slog. At least in XIII there was some degree of strategy where some enemies were immune to stagger, could only be affected by debuffs while staggered, changed forms or behaved differently when staggered, and other various properties. In Remake it's just a 'more damage' mode'. Out of all the things XIII introduced the fact it was the stagger mechanic that stuck around is crazy. The best battle system in FF were either V, IX, X, or X-2. In terms of action combat give me Tales (not Arise) or Star Ocean (not 5) any day. They manage a nice balance of core JRPG mechanics and fast-paced action combat. The biggest problem with Remake for me was having to switch characters all the time. Completely broke the flow of combat. Never played Rebrirth since I didn't like Remake. Watched a streamer play it and it looked like more of the same. |
||||
|
||||
|
An Unchosen One
Posts: 206 |
|
|||
Having to strategize rather than being able to mash doesn't fix things, because the core of the combat is still ultimately lesser than what other action RPGs have done. Compare it to any of the other games I mentioned, and it might as well fall flat. And that's before getting into how there's no such thing as best combat for RPGs, because even the best have pros and cons when directly compared. Also, it's not at all a hybrid; that's a misunderstanding based on a misinterpretation of what Kitase said about the game's easy difficulty, it is absolutely all action. The only games I can think of with both action and turn-based would be the latest ones in the Trails series. |
||||
|
||||
|
Konopan
Posts: 406 |
|
|||
|
I can already see it in this comment section but the deranged obsession people have with this particular suit is really something, especially since people don't give Kitase nearly as much grief.
I also love how the coe33 angle is never "have you played clair obscur? Have you considered opening a dialogue with these devs who clearly love the franchise you're involved with?" and instead "why aren't you doing this? these Frenchmen did it in a cave with menthols and wine (and a small loan of several million dollars). Fix final fantasy right now." |
||||
|
||||
Mizlude
 Posts: 78 |
|
|||
|
The stigma against turn-based games is not helped by the fact that these days most of them are regulated to low budget titles that do not look appealing to a lot of people and I can't fault anyone for not being interested in them. With every big franchise now pushing for action combat the only people willing to pick up the turn-based reigns are the lower budget titles that usually have the presentation and quality of a mobile games such as Fantasian. It's no surprise people will say they don't like turn based games because those are all they're come to know and associate the genre over the past decade.
Mainline turn-based games may have become a rarity but every time they do happen they always seem to receive universal praise. Persona 5 in 2016 and Dragon Quest XI in 2017 were great but then a draught happened and even those games had to be re-released in 2019 and 2020. More recently in 2024 we would get Metaphor: ReFantazio and this year we got Clair Obscura: Expedition 33 which were wonderful games. I hope Dragon Quest XII remains turn-based.
What on earth is fake viral marketing? This sounds like a conspiracy theory because people are liking one game more than another |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group