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Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:53 am Reply with quote
Well, Macross was originally supposed to be a send-up of giant robot shows to begin with, until they began to play the tropes straight. Macross 7 has the same reputation Gundam ZZ, though, which is silly, because the first two Gundam series were dead serious, but not the first Macross.

Nevertheless, I haven't gotten to Macross 7 as of yet.

As far as Dragon Ball Kai, I'm too attached to things like the early filler with Gohan and the Shunsuke Kikuchi score to buy wholesale into it, but I have been watching it to see what they do with it (and reviewing it for my blog). I think Kai works in the Namek episodes, where some of the original cut's filler got a bit too heavy.

I would like to see if Funimation gets it, whether or not they do an entirely new dub, perhaps one that's a bit more accurate than their DBZ dubs have been.

A little info: Kai was actually animated in fullscreen, but cropped for television. The DVDs have the cropped TV version, but the Blu-Ray has the fullscreen version. Yeah, I don't get what Toei is up to, either. You can find more information on Mike Labrie's website, Daizenshuu EX.

And the Kai score is by Kenji Yamamoto, who has done a lot of music for the DBZ video games. He's not awful, but he's no Kikuchi.

Last edited by penguintruth on Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:05 am Reply with quote
Macross 7 is by far a better show than ZZ. Not because it's better animated or more serious, but because ZZ does at least try to take itself more seriously at times.

The wackyness of M7 is a lot more like the fun of G Gundam, but like all of these shows, you're either going to LOVE it or LOATHE it. But the few songs for the first half of Macross 7 do get a little tiring, as does the insanely reused animation. Really, it could have been cut down to 39 episodes without any effort, and in the end, only a few episodes really stick, and the OVAs and movies. I'd say if you came to Macross through Robotech, you'll be more inclined to not like it because Robotech set up the universe as a more strict and edgy one, whereas Macross was always about girls singing songs as the main weapon. Although, Macross 7 has it's moments where shit hits the fan and stuff gets really intense, and awesome.

The last bit of Macross I haven't seen yet is the Macross Plus Movie. As for ZZ, I'm not sure anything could save it, at least the first 20 episodes. I'm getting tired with Gundam and hotshot teen pilots all together these days, which is why 0083 and 0080 are still my favorites. They're good foils for each other and both have immense budgets for their animation. 0083 is what I wish more mecha would be like, just good action with less crappy teen angst about having to kill your giant walking death machine.

Dynamite 7 is all about Basara singing to space whales.

As for Kurozuka, it was just weird, and not in the necessarily good way either. More like weird just to be weird without a lot of substance to it.

Last edited by walw6pK4Alo on Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:35 am Reply with quote
Hosoda? whats he done? Digimon, Tokikake, and Summer Wars?

people are so trigger-happy to label the "next Miyazaki".. first it was Shinkai, now Hosoda.. Yasuhiro Yoshiura's the one I've got my eye on Wink

you liked Kurozuka? I found the first episode stunning (i loved the animation style and character designs), but it seemed to really bland out into mediocrity mid-way, and the ending didn't seem like anything special. overall, like you said, if you're into overly bloody sword-swinging driven plot, then yeah you'd probably like it.


"i'm not familiar with the Macross franchise"
"oh you know, it's that typical Macross storyline"

nice xD

funny that a none-serious parody like anime wouldn't be popular. after seeing how popular TTGL is D:

awesome to hear of Best-of-Decade talk. I'm super interested in those lists being released. of course, for most fans these days a "best of decade" is going to simply be a "best of everything I've seen" :\

yeah, i find myself not reading so much manga because its on the computer. i don't read novels at all on my computer... tried it and said no.

most of that fanservice-y stuff is seinen.. theres a reason these things air at 2am..

lol sasameki koto.. that show had potential.. the animation is definitely taking cuts

whoa whoa whoa, watch what you say about Aria. i know some pretty big fanboys :\. but I do agree with the Azumanga Daioh comparison.


whoa, Zac, you didn't like the Tekkon kinkreet movie? I mean, yeah it's no Mind game or Noiseman Sound insect, but still, Studio4°C > everything

I found that first dude really interesting. I'm glad you got him as a guest. The only reason I wasn't that into the second one was because I don't read much manga <.<. but there are those exceptions (kodomo no jikan) Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:33 am Reply with quote
Excellent. I really hope you'll be keeping that intro.
Aww. I'm disappointed. I hate positive people and it's Miyazaki's general pessimism is responsible for his best work in my opinion. Still, I'm very curious to see Summer Wars.
I've been meaning to see Kurozuka. I'm sort of holding off to see if it gets licensed. It sounds pretty cool.
I'm rather curious to see Marcross 7 now. I found DYRL to be pretty ridiculous but not enjoyable because it's serious.
My god, you practically need a guide book to navigate all the DBZ releases. I haven't watched DBZ since I was young but I'd definitely like to see Kai.
I read relatively little manga. It's actually because I've seen the anime. I kind of don't want to bother with something I'm already familiar with the story from. Also though, I'd like to see is more large collected additions of manga. I can't really be bothered to follow most stuff as it's released. It's such a pain to buy like 10-20 volumes of something I want to read. I'd rather be able to just pick up a few big editions for a somewhat more reasonable amount of money after a while similar to boxed sets of anime. That would probably encourage me to pick more stuff up.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:41 am Reply with quote
Justin: I have yet to go to SDCC, too. It has had guests who, on occasion, I've wanted to see, but I like the convenience of cons around here, where I don't have to pay hotel fare.

Zac: I hated M7, because the mechs looked dumb, and 'cus the songs were shitty in a "I'm tone-deaf" way, not in a "I'm making fun of power ballads" way. I could deal with it being silly, if it was fun, but the characters really grated on me with their dumbassery and bad acting. Really, when you talked about "killing the industry", you should be referring to companies churning out dreck like M7. Rolling Eyes That's why I'm so glad the Nuku Nuku tv show made fun of that series.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:47 am Reply with quote
You shouldn't sneer at Hosoda's Digimon movies for a couple of reasons. They are what got him the Howl's Moving Castle gig. And the second one is awfully similar to Summer Wars, to the point Summer Wars feels like an expanded remake of it. Even in the bowdlerised versions we got with Digimon The Movie, the quality of his work on the films still shines through.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:57 am Reply with quote
Zac, you can't scoff at the Digimon movies. Even globbed together, Hosoda's style completely and utterly dominates the film and it's just... it's just glorious. If it's the Americanized version that you're pooh-poohing, do yourself a favor and get a hold of "Bokura no War Game" standalone. It's an absolute treat and easily the high-water mark of the franchise.
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Big Hed

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:46 am Reply with quote
Little nitpick: Kurozuka is a 2008 show.

Anyway, SDCC 06 was my first con. Maybe it's because I haven't been jaded by years of con-going experience, but I found it great with all the people.

ikillchicken wrote:
I hate positive people...

Uh... you only mean in the context of film direction, right?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:14 am Reply with quote
I third the opinion that you should watch the two Digimon movies directed by Hosoda before scoffing at them. They're the best movie adaptations of a long shonen series by far (though, I still haven't seen One Piece movie 6, so my opinion might change). Too bad that they'll never get a proper release over here.

And over on Twitter, Zac said that Carl Kimlinger was going to be on the ANNcast, so what happened? Not that I didn't enjoy the segment with Bradley Meek, but I was looking forward to hearing that.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:36 am Reply with quote
I'm also gonna say that the first 2 Digimon movie's aren't that bad ("Bokura no War Game" is actually my favorite thing from the series)
and *reads encyclopedia entry*... wait he also directed some Ashita no Nadja and Ojamajo Doremi stuff too? And he's friendly to boot? Yeah. I think I'm gonna like this guy.

Anyway, fun and interesting podcast (again) this week!
((I'm gonna miss the cave sound effects once Justin comes back Anime hyper))
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:02 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
I'd say if you came to Macross through Robotech, you'll be more inclined to not like it because Robotech set up the universe as a more strict and edgy one, whereas Macross was always about girls singing songs as the main weapon.

Macross had a sense of humor, but I never saw it as being a silly show. Minmay’s songs are crap, but the point was that the aliens had no culture except warfare, which is why her songs, candy-coated nonsense that they were, had such an effect.

The whole thing struck me as a much better anti-war statement that the usual “people die in wars!” stuff. Military victory is impossible since the aliens have literally millions of ships, and the only way to survive is to find something else to do besides fight.

The problem comes in when it seems to expect us to appreciate Minmay as a serious artist. DYRL actually addressed that when Misa commented that the alien song that saved the day was “just an everyday love song” rather than anything of cosmic importance.

The series had serious problems, but that angle of it worked fairly well.

I’ve seen about half of Macross 7, and I’m starting to get annoyed with it. I was fine with the light tone and the poorly animated battles (since music is arguably more important to Macross than fighting), but Basara is so self-centered he’s impossible to like and yet he’s being presented as a hero…also I can’t swallow the magic song power that kills monsters. The original Macross was decent science fiction, but Macross 7 takes a turn for the fantastic…which is kind of odd since the songs had no effect on the aliens for about 20 episodes.

walw6pK4Alo wrote:
The last bit of Macross I haven't seen yet is the Macross Plus Movie.

It’s better than the OVA version. The cuts, additions, and re-arrangements benefit it a lot.

A shame the only version ever released on R1 DVD seemed to be a VHS scan.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:55 pm Reply with quote
Zac trashed Azumanga Daioh, and the thread is still only a page long? interesting.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:09 pm Reply with quote
v1cious wrote:
Zac trashed Azumanga Daioh, and the thread is still only a page long? interesting.

Mostly, I got that he said he liked the manga better. I read the manga after the anime, and I disagree, but it's impossible to know how I would have felt the other way around. Regardless, I would never spend time arguing the goodness of AD. It is one of the very few absolutes in life Smile.

Aria the same, except that I completely understand that some, possibly many, could see it as "boring". If you are interested in action, you won't find it here. However, if you are interested in a wonderful depiction on film of human beings emotionally interacting in an authentic and positive manner (albeit a fantasy setting), in a story that has a supporting plot, an overall arc with beginning and very satisfying end, paced perfectly and beautifully animated... or, if you would like a leisurely and uplifting vacation from the melodrama, harems and robots, then you won't find many better series. Really a YMMV, though. (Kamichu! fans, for instance, should certainly enjoy it.)

Happy to hear that Kadokawa's leader "gets it" about needing to offer something better than fansubs in order to defeat them. Not the lower-quality and temporary streamed versions that companies market as "the same" and then complain because there are "still people who watch fansubs". Please respect your customer's intelligence (especially the potential ones that you would rather not alienate before you even have a chance at selling them something). Streams are fine for what they are, but they aren't equal.

Not surprised at the different turn in Rebuild of Evangelion. The title makes it obvious. I've strenuously avoided spoilers, so that I can see it unaffected by opinions, but any fervent Eva fan can spot the change in perception of Shinji (due to editing, primarily) from the first movie. The images of Mari-glasses-girl immediately evoke strong harem vibes (true or not), and yes, it's assumed that Anno's personal, positive changes will be reflected in the new version. The other clue being that it apparently lifts from the manga.

Kurozuka - Not how I would have described its antagonist (Kuromitsu), who is definitely the highlight of the series and should have appeared more (voiced by Romi Paku). Though technically she is a vampire, the execution of that concept here is pretty unique, and includes spoiler[cannabalism]. Supposedly, the anime lifts concepts from from "Kurozuka, a 1939 japanese dance-drama", which features a spoiler[man-eating ogress] named Kuromitsu. But also... spoiler[What she appears to be, she is not, and the growing suspicion of that is one of the better plot points.] I don't see it being licensed anytime soon, in the current environment. Does go downhill in quality visually from the stunning first and second episodes, and it's a bit hard to follow until late episode reveals. Overall, it's worth watching for horror fans, gore fans, and those just looking for something more mature and different from the usual genre fare.

As for anime fans that don't read manga, it's because anime is a film medium. Just a different purpose and point of entry. I'm a film fan, as I notice a lot of anime fans are. Another fanbase comes from comics and games. Anime is just an additional medium for the content they enjoy. I've read a handful of manga, but only out of curiosity about some difference in plot points, additional story that will never be animated or about other works by the creators (CLAMP). You'll never find me browsing the aisles looking for comics to read.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:52 pm Reply with quote
I'll always prefer anime to manga, if only because I prefer animation itself as a medium... But I'll pick up a manga if I'm absolutely in love with its anime adaptation.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:15 pm Reply with quote
v1cious wrote:
Zac trashed Azumanga Daioh, and the thread is still only a page long? interesting.

If Zac had said he disliked both AD as an anime and manga then a flame war would probably occur, albeit if it was not a holiday today. I've read the manga and watched the anime, and I preferred the anime over the manga even though I liked both. Some of the translations in the manga had me a little disappointed.

I'm more of anime fan then a manga fan, but I do like manga as well. My manga collection is lacking more mainly due to the sales come around for those publishers right around the time I can't purchase anything grr.
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